Happy "Kill a Mormon" Day!

[happyone]

1) Boggs was a Democrat (though obviously a different party than today). How much of the church membership's apparent modern dislike of Democrat party is due to this?2) How much was this order driven by the influx of a large group of Northern abolitionists moving into a slave state?

...

little to none. Mormons were democrats until Ezra Taft Benson was called to the 12 and then made secretary of agriculture. IMO his prominence, both in the church and as a member of Eisenhower's cabinet, coupled with the McCarthy era Red Scare, were responsible for the paradigmatic shift that took place in Mormon political affiliation. He was the sole reason why my grandfather, a tobacco farmer in NC bucked tradition and became one of the few republicans in a county that, even today, will not even hire substitute teachers who aren't on the democratic party rolls.

I agree with Pellegrino, but it took a little longer - also I think the Dems shift to the left on social issues during the late 60's early 70's (ERA amoung other things) had alot to do with it.

Utah was basically a Democratic state until '76 when Hatch beat Ted Moss and the Democrat running for Congress in SLC got picked up for soliciting (I don't remember his name, but he had replaced Wayne Owens when Owens decided to run against Jake Garn in '74) about 6 weeks before the election. Before that the Dems held both Congressional seats, one senate seat, the gov, and one house of the state leg

[YOhio]

I agree with Pellegrino, but it took a little longer - also I think the Dems shift to the left on social issues during the late 60's early 70's (ERA amoung other things) had alot to do with it.

Utah was basically a Democratic state until '76 when Hatch beat Ted Moss and the Democrat running for Congress in SLC got picked up for soliciting (I don't remember his name, but he had replaced Wayne Owens the in '74) about 6 weeks before the election. Before that the Dems held both Congressional seats, one senate seat, the gov, and one house of the state leg

I don't think it's accurate to say that it's ever been a Democratic state. At one time it was much more balanced than today, but it still leaned Republican. Look at the Senate seats. The Lee seat was originally held by Reed Smoot. It's existed for 108 years and it's been held by a D for 18 years. In 105 years of the Hatch seat it's been held by a D for 48 years.

The Governors office was more balanced with the Dems holding the seat for two different 20+ year periods in the 20th century.

Here's a good quote from Hugh B. Brown on LDS party politics, posted in another thread.

When I came down from Canada a question in my mind was whether I should be a Democrat or a Republican. I spoke to several people about it. President Grant at the time was an ardent Democrat, as were his counselor and cousin, Anthony W. Ivins, and B. H. Roberts. Each of these men told me at different times that if I wanted to belong to a party that represented the common people I should become a Democrat, but that if I wanted to be popular and have the adulation of others and be in touch with the wealth of the nation, I should become a Republican.

I took what these men said seriously and became a Democrat and have stayed a Democrat, even though President Grant later turned very bitter toward Franklin D. Roosevelt because he thought he was a dishonest man President Ivins remained true to the Democratic Party, as did B. H. Roberts, Stephen L Richards, and other men and women of those times. I never found a reason to change my own political allegiance.

Later, President Grant wanted me to join the Republicans and forget the Democrats; he was rather pronounced in his denunciation of the Democrats as a whole. I had the effrontery to tell him that I thought he had turned his back completely on his own allegiance and that he should have stayed a Democrat. We argued on this point quite a bit as we traveled over Europe. At that time, he was just changing his political allegiance, and his cousin, Anthony W. Ivins, pleaded with him to stay true to the party.
…
I remember B. H. Roberts and John Henry Smith, who at the time was a counselor in the First Presidency, entering more than once into a powerful battle on politics. John Henry Smith was an ardent Republican. On one occasion, B. H. Roberts told him that he should wash his mouth out with soap because of the things he had said about the Democrats. John Henry replied, "I'll wash my mouth out after you have taken some lye to your own mouth and cleansed from it some of the terrible things that the Democratic party is guilty of." This was a battle royal between two giants. I thought that B. H. Roberts came off victorious, but, of course, my thinking on this is prejudiced.

More than ever, as I think back since I returned to the United States in 1927, I would still choose to be a Democrat rather than a Republican. I realize that by that choice I would be in the minority — almost a minority of one -— among the General Authorities, since most of them are Republicans. But my conversion to the principles of the Democratic party has been complete, and as time goes on I become more and more convinced that the Democrats have the right philosophy, both in foreign policy and in their refusal to look back or to stand still. Theirs is the party of progress. I do not want to give a political speech, but I am more of a Democrat now than I ever was.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Utah was basically a Democratic state until '76 when Hatch beat Ted Moss and the Democrat running for Congress in SLC got picked up for soliciting (I don't remember his name, but he had replaced Wayne Owens when Owens decided to run against Jake Garn in '74) about 6 weeks before the election. Before that the Dems held both Congressional seats, one senate seat, the gov, and one house of the state leg

Jake Garn was a D, wasn't he? I always liked him until he sent me some 'Vote for Me!' form letter when I wrote him asking for a recommendation for the Air Force Academy. He gave a speech on the lawn at our stake center talking about going into space, being a senator, etc. I shook his hand and talked with him for a minute. I was wearing my scout uniform, proudly showing my newly minted Eagle Scout badge, and talked with him about wanting to go to the AFA. He told me to send him a letter with a resume, so I did. A lot of good that did.

Reed Smoot was a Republican. Did the state blame him (Smoot-Hawley) for the lasting effects of the depression? I know my grandfather to this day can't understand why anybody would vote for a Republican. He tells stories of the WPA keeping food on the table (he dug the foundations for the Indian School in Brigham City by hand as a 16 year-old boy), etc.

[YOhio]

Jake Garn was a D, wasn't he?

No.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Here's a good quote from Hugh B. Brown on LDS party politics,

Hugh B. Brown very nearly got the church to denounce its racist past and give the Priesthood to blacks in 1969 when Harold B. Lee was out of town (and achieved a unanimous vote on the issue), but Harold B. Lee later got the vote reversed. Mark E. Peterson and Ezra Taft Benson were also strongly opposed.

That would have been a good thing to change that at/near the height of civil rights struggles.

[NorthwestUteFan]

No.

My mistake. Maybe I was confusing him with Wayne Owens as being a D?

[lambdacoug]

You're in KC?

Yeah, I live in Lee's Summit and work in Lenexa.

[lambdacoug]

Does anyone else have an issue with the fact that an extermination order was issued against the Mormons (or any sect for that matter). Seems like a complete trashing of constitutional rights.

You do understand the historical issues around the order and the fact that the mormons were not simply innocent victims of tyranny, right?

None of that, of course, excuses the order as it was a complete abortion of justice and should have been dealt with differently, to say the least.

[lambdacoug]

1) Boggs was a Democrat (though obviously a different party than today).

Them evil, evil democrats...

[creekster]

I agree with Pellegrino, but it took a little longer - also I think the Dems shift to the left on social issues during the late 60's early 70's (ERA amoung other things) had alot to do with it.

Utah was basically a Democratic state until '76 when Hatch beat Ted Moss and the Democrat running for Congress in SLC got picked up for soliciting (I don't remember his name, but he had replaced Wayne Owens when Owens decided to run against Jake Garn in '74) about 6 weeks before the election. Before that the Dems held both Congressional seats, one senate seat, the gov, and one house of the state leg

Dont forget the long line of democratic governors into the (Cal Rampton and others, for example). Btw, ted moss or frank moss? my memory fades.

[LA Ute]

Dont forget the long line of democratic governors into the (Cal Rampton and others, for example). Btw, ted moss or frank moss? my memory fades.

Frank Moss was also called Ted Moss. Allen Howe was the Dem congressman convicted of solicitation. That slip-up gave us Dan Marriott, the accidental congressman. That was my era. It is true that there usually seemed to be one senator and one member of congress from each party in those days (there were only 2 congressmen from Utah back then). Candidates used to argue the need for "balance," if they were of the other party than the sitting officeholder.

[Joe Public]

Yeah, I live in Lee's Summit and work in Lenexa.

If I remember correctly, Lee's Summit has a very good public school system.

[Goatnapper'96]

I agree with Pellegrino, but it took a little longer - also I think the Dems shift to the left on social issues during the late 60's early 70's (ERA amoung other things) had alot to do with it.

Utah was basically a Democratic state until '76 when Hatch beat Ted Moss and the Democrat running for Congress in SLC got picked up for soliciting (I don't remember his name, but he had replaced Wayne Owens when Owens decided to run against Jake Garn in '74) about 6 weeks before the election. Before that the Dems held both Congressional seats, one senate seat, the gov, and one house of the state leg

In addition to the social issues I think there were changes in the Utah economy away from mining/blue collar unionized jobs towards more technology, tourism and real estate development/construction had an impact on the Democrat Party dying in Utah.

But I think the impact of ETB was pretty large but I also think it is intellectually dishonest to not realize that ETB was as much a product of the shifting perspective of greater mormon culture as he was influencing the shift.

Besides that he was right, commies sucked big balls!

[Clark Addison]

To provide a little insight on the Utah-Democrat question, here is how Utah voted in Presidential elections from 1896 to 2008.


In the 20 elections prior to 1976, Utah voted a different way than the nation only 3 times, one time voting Democratic when a Republican won, and two times voting Republican when a Democrat won. This seems to indicate that neither party predominated during this time. I was kind of surprised to see Johnson soundly defeat Goldwater in 1964. Goldwater is often seen as the proto-Reagan in many ways, plus he was a westerner. This was after ETB in the cabinet and much of the Red Scare, so I would have guessed that Utah would have swung by then, but they went for Johnson, rather convincingly. I have to think that this is a pretty big indication that the Republicanization of Utah didn't happen until after 1964, unless there was a reason I am unaware of that Utah didn't like Goldwater.

In 1968, Utah went Republican, but no more than the rest of the country. In 1972, when 61% of the country voted Republican, 68% of Utahns did. Then the big one, in 1976, when the country went norrowly for Carter, Utah voted overwhelmingly Republican. So there seems to be a pretty big shift in the 1970 to 1976 timeframe. After that, Democratic Presidential candidates haven't sttod a chance in Utah. In the eight elections since 1980, Democrats have never received more than 34% of Utah's vote, and have been under 30% half of the time.

This is far different than earlier in the century. There were a couple of times where Democrats were in the low 30% range before 1960, but it was always due to other candidates being in the race. When the Democrat Wilson got only 33% in 1912, 8% of Utahns voted Socialist (would a Socialist candidate get even 0.5% in Utah today?). Similar story in 1904. In 1924 Davis only got 30%, but in that election there was a progressive candidate (LaFollette) who got over 20% of the Utah vote.

[LA Ute]

To provide a little insight on the Utah-Democrat question, here is how Utah voted in Presidential elections from 1896 to 2008.


In the 20 elections prior to 1976, Utah voted a different way than the nation only 3 times, one time voting Democratic when a Republican won, and two times voting Republican when a Democrat won. This seems to indicate that neither party predominated during this time. I was kind of surprised to see Johnson soundly defeat Goldwater in 1964. Goldwater is often seen as the proto-Reagan in many ways, plus he was a westerner. This was after ETB in the cabinet and much of the Red Scare, so I would have guessed that Utah would have swung by then, but they went for Johnson, rather convincingly. I have to think that this is a pretty big indication that the Republicanization of Utah didn't happen until after 1964, unless there was a reason I am unaware of that Utah didn't like Goldwater.

In 1968, Utah went Republican, but no more than the rest of the country. In 1972, when 61% of the country voted Republican, 68% of Utahns did. Then the big one, in 1976, when the country went norrowly for Carter, Utah voted overwhelmingly Republican. So there seems to be a pretty big shift in the 1970 to 1976 timeframe. After that, Democratic Presidential candidates haven't sttod a chance in Utah. In the eight elections since 1980, Democrats have never received more than 34% of Utah's vote, and have been under 30% half of the time.

This is far different than earlier in the century. There were a couple of times where Democrats were in the low 30% range before 1960, but it was always due to other candidates being in the race. When the Democrat Wilson got only 33% in 1912, 8% of Utahns voted Socialist (would a Socialist candidate get even 0.5% in Utah today?). Similar story in 1904. In 1924 Davis only got 30%, but in that election there was a progressive candidate (LaFollette) who got over 20% of the Utah vote.

A couple of thoughts:

I think the societal upheavals of the 60s were what made Utah a Republican state. The reaction to all that didn't really take hold until 1976 when the age of Reagan as a national politician really began. I was a teenager and in college in the late 60s and early 70s and I really don't recall Pres. Benson being a real influence on the state's politics at all. His political views were controversial among even the most devout Mormons. In that era people seemed to compartmentalize politics much more. For example, the entire First Presidency was bitterly opposed to the New Deal and openly opposed FDR. As you note, he carried Utah by landslides every time he ran. In 1964 David O. McKay met with Goldwater and endorsed him. "As a Republican my hopes go with you," said the prophet. Goldwater lost badly in Utah. And let's not forget, Reed Smoot, a sitting apostle, lost his seat to Elbert D. Thomas, a U.of U. professor and a Democrat, who served 3 terms.

Now the church is steadfastly neutral in politics, except for "moral issue," and as we've seen, when the church calls something a moral issue and speaks out on it, the members pretty much fall into line.

A great book on all this is "Politics in the American West," by Frank Jonas. Also Quinn's book on J. Reuben Clark's public years is good.