Signs of the Times

[RobinFinderson]

Beyond all of that, popular culture is particularly obsessed with the end of the world as we know it. Some would argue Hollywood always has been, but now, so is television on an unprecedented level. Terra Nova, The Walking Dead and even Breaking Bad, Damages or, Dexter are more than incredibly depressing and violent shows, they are remarkably good at raising anxiety levels of their viewers in a manner previously assigned to the slasher movie genre and more specifically the soundtrack of the Halloween movies franchise. There is real science to those piano notes—look it up.

These shows aren't depressing. They are awesome.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Steven Pinker's new book just came out; it's about why violence is decreasing. He's been banging that drum for a long time and I look forward to seeing it in long form. A couple researchers disagree with him, but I'm inclined to tentatively agree with his premise based on the evidence I've seen him present.

In addition to the issues already mentioned about working to build a better future rather than assuming it's all supposed to go to shit and then not matter anyway, it doesn't seem like any of the "prophecies" have been fulfilled.

Generally speaking the human condition is improving, not getting worse. Ancient cultures were much more violent and had much worse morals than most cultures today.

If the 2nd coming was really going to happen it would have taken place a long time ago.

[tooblue]

Generally speaking the human condition is improving, not getting worse. Ancient cultures were much more violent and had much worse morals than most cultures today.

If the 2nd coming was really going to happen it would have taken place a long time ago.

The hubris of this post is remarkable. It assumes that modern society, in the here and now, represents the pinnacle of human advancement. At the same time such a post appears to summarily dismiss the achievements of past cultures while ignoring the reality that our present is already a future societies past.

What a wonderfully absurd proposition to suggest there will be no end of the world, even and especially speaking only in purely scientific terms. Vast and diverse, dominant species have been erased from off the face of this planet by cataclysmic events. We, as in our society, despite all of our science and technology have no hope of averting such disasters, when, inevitably such catastrophic events will be repeated, either precipitated by our own hand or as the result of happenstance.

Our society is one massive volcanic eruption or earthquake away from oblivion. To say it will never happen is to deny our very existence. Beyond the caprices of nature, there is also the not so insignificant truth that through out the course of human history, empires have risen and fallen and with them much of their culture, language, science and history does not survive, except as captured on a placard affixed to a display case in some museum.

[woot]

The hubris of this post is remarkable. It assumes that modern society, in the here and now, represents the pinnacle of human advancement. At the same time such a post appears to summarily dismiss the achievements of past cultures while ignoring the reality that our present is already a future societies past.

What a wonderfully absurd proposition to suggest there will be no end of the world, even and especially speaking only in purely scientific terms. Vast and diverse, dominant species have been erased from off the face of this planet by cataclysmic events. We, as in our society, despite all of our science and technology have no hope of averting such disasters, when, inevitably such catastrophic events will be repeated, either precipitated by our own hand or as the result of happenstance.

Our society is one massive volcanic eruption or earthquake away from oblivion. To say it will never happen is to deny our very existence. Beyond the caprices of nature, there is also the not so insignificant truth that through out the course of human history, empires have risen and fallen and with them much of their culture, language, science and history does not survive, except as captured on a placard affixed to a display case in some museum.

Nothing in this post responds to anything that was actually said. Admitting that the 2nd coming isn't happening is not similar to denying that the earth will eventually be destroyed or that humans will eventually go extinct. There was also nothing to suggest that anyone thinks we've reached the pinnacle of human achievement, only that progress is being made.

I often shake my head at how poorly you seem to understand the posts you respond to.

[wuapinmon]

Dexter is not depressing! Have you even watched it?

[Spicy McHaggis]

The hubris of this post is remarkable. It assumes that modern society, in the here and now, represents the pinnacle of human advancement. At the same time such a post appears to summarily dismiss the achievements of past cultures while ignoring the reality that our present is already a future societies past.

What a wonderfully absurd proposition to suggest there will be no end of the world, even and especially speaking only in purely scientific terms. Vast and diverse, dominant species have been erased from off the face of this planet by cataclysmic events. We, as in our society, despite all of our science and technology have no hope of averting such disasters, when, inevitably such catastrophic events will be repeated, either precipitated by our own hand or as the result of happenstance.

Our society is one massive volcanic eruption or earthquake away from oblivion. To say it will never happen is to deny our very existence. Beyond the caprices of nature, there is also the not so insignificant truth that through out the course of human history, empires have risen and fallen and with them much of their culture, language, science and history does not survive, except as captured on a placard affixed to a display case in some museum.

I'm sure at some point humans will no longer exist, my point is that the downfall of society isn't happening the way Christians define it happening prior to Jesus coming back. Jesus ain't coming back, that's my point.

I'm not the one with hubris.

[tooblue]

Nothing in this post responds to anything that was actually said. Admitting that the 2nd coming isn't happening is not similar to denying that the earth will eventually be destroyed or that humans will eventually go extinct. There was also nothing to suggest that anyone thinks we've reached the pinnacle of human achievement, only that progress is being made.

I often shake my head at how poorly you seem to understand the posts you respond to.

Woot, your inability to think abstractly or, in a non linear manner about any subject, least of all religion is tragic. I feel geuine sadness for you. This isn't a classroom; we are not writing essays or, formulating thesis statements. We need not be encumbered by a formula that dictates how one must think, write and respond during discourse.

This is a sports message board with a religion forum. Quit worrying about what you think i don't understand and take advantage of the opportunity to interact with a mind that views the world in a dramatically different manner than your own. it's frightening but, strangely comforting.

And if you can't do that, then don't respond. recoil back into your little bubble and be content with what you think you know.

[tooblue]

I'm sure at some point humans will no longer exist, my point is that the downfall of society isn't happening the way Christians define it happening prior to Jesus coming back. Jesus ain't coming back, that's my point.

I'm not the one with hubris.

I'd love to be able to speak with such "self-confidence" on the disparate definitions of societal downfall that many Christian sects may consider signs that would precede the Second coming of Christ. Since I can't, I'll leave it to you.

I will say however I believe Christ will return and I choose to exercise my faith in the Gospel as taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I am comforted by the teachings and confident that they have and will continue to bless my life.

[tooblue]

Dexter is not depressing! Have you even watched it?

I watched enough of an episode once to know I will never invest time in it. The whole idea of it is depressing.

[UtahDan]

I don't find the end of the world talk all that interesting. People have been predicting it with varying levels of breathlessness throughout history and we can probably safely infer pre-history as well.

What is interesting to me is something that underlies it that Packer, among others, mentioned in the last conference. The idea that the world is less moral and more degraded than it has ever been. I have been trying to imagine what is meant by that. No woman, person of color or LGBT person in their right mind would want to go back to the 1950s era norms that some seem to be longing for. The progress that as been made on the social justice front, while having far to go, has been breathtaking in the last 50-60 years.

I think the only way it makes sense to say the world is less moral is if when you say "moral" you are referring to sexual norms. That is perhaps a component of morality, but I think you have to dramatically overstate how much those norms have changed and how much that matters to see the world as in severe decline. It is not the idyllic world for white males that the 50s was, for sure. But it is, to me, an infinitely better world.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words." - Hesiod, 8th century BC

[SeattleUte]

Earliest Christians were apocalyptic in their outlook. We see it in Revelations. So were early Muslims. Martin Luther. Every time monotheism spins off a new sect this outlook is a key feature. Yawn. It's always the same song. For Mormons it's getting a little late to retain this dogma; it's kind of embarrassing.

[Solon]

I don't find the end of the world talk all that interesting. People have been predicting it with varying levels of breathlessness throughout history and we can probably safely infer pre-history as well.

What is interesting to me is something that underlies it that Packer, among others, mentioned in the last conference. The idea that the world is less moral and more degraded than it has ever been. I have been trying to imagine what is meant by that. No woman, person of color or LGBT person in their right mind would want to go back to the 1950s era norms that some seem to be longing for. The progress that as been made on the social justice front, while having far to go, has been breathtaking in the last 50-60 years.

I think the only way it makes sense to say the world is less moral is if when you say "moral" you are referring to sexual norms. That is perhaps a component of morality, but I think you have to dramatically overstate how much those norms have changed and how much that matters to see the world as in severe decline. It is not the idyllic world for white males that the 50s was, for sure. But it is, to me, an infinitely better world.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words." - Hesiod, 8th century BC

Nice Hesiod quote. The idea that the world is declining from some once-upon-a-time Camelot is as old as the Greeks (if not older). Hesiod's Works and Days sang that there had once been a golden age, then a silver age, then a bronze age, an age of heroes, and now we're living in the crappy age of iron.

The model of decline is pretty different from the model of progress we hold today, where next year's ipod is going to far surpass this year's version. There are instances where societies have gone backwards in technology and standard-of-living; we shouldn't take either the idea of perpetual progress, or perpetual decline, too much to heart.

Edit: there's a pretty good book on eschatology in Western Tradition. It's called Longing for the End by Frederic Baumgartner. 19th century Mormons are mentioned in there, albeit briefly.

[DrumNFeather]

I don't find the end of the world talk all that interesting. People have been predicting it with varying levels of breathlessness throughout history and we can probably safely infer pre-history as well.

What is interesting to me is something that underlies it that Packer, among others, mentioned in the last conference. The idea that the world is less moral and more degraded than it has ever been. I have been trying to imagine what is meant by that. No woman, person of color or LGBT person in their right mind would want to go back to the 1950s era norms that some seem to be longing for. The progress that as been made on the social justice front, while having far to go, has been breathtaking in the last 50-60 years.

I think the only way it makes sense to say the world is less moral is if when you say "moral" you are referring to sexual norms. That is perhaps a component of morality, but I think you have to dramatically overstate how much those norms have changed and how much that matters to see the world as in severe decline. It is not the idyllic world for white males that the 50s was, for sure. But it is, to me, an infinitely better world.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words." - Hesiod, 8th century BC

I don't know...I mean, I think that a natural interest in the end comes from believing in the beginning...whether that was via creation or big bang, something caused all of us to be here, something got this whole thing started...so, it stands to reason that it will someday end. And, we weren't there for the beginning, so there is at least a chance, albeit slim, that we would be around for the end. Either via a second coming/religious end of the world type scenario, or, through the natural distruction of the earth by its inhabitants or itself (see TerreNova!).

[woot]

Woot, your inability to think abstractly or, in a non linear manner about any subject, least of all religion is tragic. I feel geuine sadness for you. This isn't a classroom; we are not writing essays or, formulating thesis statements. We need not be encumbered by a formula that dictates how one must think, write and respond during discourse.

This is a sports message board with a religion forum. Quit worrying about what you think i don't understand and take advantage of the opportunity to interact with a mind that views the world in a dramatically different manner than your own. it's frightening but, strangely comforting.

And if you can't do that, then don't respond. recoil back into your little bubble and be content with what you think you know.

Your tendency to deliberately misinterpret people's words and then castigate them for believing things they actually don't is just evidence of your grander thinking abilities. Got it.

Look, if you want to talk about people who don't believe the world will ever end, that's one thing, but deciding that's what you want to discuss and then attributing that belief to someone to give you the excuse is just childish.

Nice job on redefining "nonlinear thinking" to mean "make shit up" though, seriously. Must be nice. Have you considered voting for Herman Caine? You might like his "I don't have the facts to back this up, but..." motto.

[tooblue]

Your tendency to deliberately misinterpret people's words and then castigate them for believing things they actually don't is just evidence of your grander thinking abilities. Got it.

Look, if you want to talk about people who don't believe the world will ever end, that's one thing, but deciding that's what you want to discuss and then attributing that belief to someone to give you the excuse is just childish.

Nice job on redefining "nonlinear thinking" to mean "make shit up" though, seriously. Must be nice. Have you considered voting for Herman Caine? You might like his "I don't have the facts to back this up, but..." motto.

I made crap up? Like what per se? What facts am I missing? Do you mean to tell me that cataclysmic events have never occurred in the geological history of the earth ... ?

lol you refer to me as a child and yet your posts are riddle with and insults. Your grasping here, but the membrane of the bubble you live in has halted your reach. Oh, well. Moving on.