Church President Succession

[Sullyute]

After viewing General Conference and seeing the failing health of some of the general authorities, I have a question about the succession of the Church President.

If the current president of the Church passed away and the president of the Twelve Apostles was not lucid, who should fill the role as the next Prophet?

Quinn talks about this in Mormon Origins:

From 1985 to 1988, Apostle Marion G. Romney was next-in-line to be church president yet was regarded as non compos mentis. Because of Romney's mental state, Howard W. Hunter became Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in Romney's place on 10 November 1985. Within days LDS officials told the new media "they do not know what will happen if he outlives [church president Ezra Taft] Benson." The First Presidency's spokesman quickly added: "The Lord will tell us what to do." While apostolic succession was in this vulnerable condition, the church president had a coronary attack in 1987 and recovered. A single heartbeat stood between the church and the automatic succession of a mentally incapacitated apostle to the office of president.

So who would you prefer to succeed if the scenario above happened today?

[UtahDan]

I think that if you had a mentally incapacitated next in line they would pass him over to the next person. This seems logical. That they have not made this a policy may only reflect a very conservative view that you don't make that decision until you are confronted with it. If you had someone who was suffering from severe dementia, easy call. If you had someone who was lucid at times but had bad days....I bet they would still ordain that person. Tougher call.

[All-American]

They would wait.

[creekster]

lucidity is not equivalent to sanity.

[UtahDan]

They would wait.

And just have no first presidency? What if that went on for ten year? You may well be right, just curious why you think so.

[pellegrino]

I have no idea how to vote in this one because I have no idea what they would do. They could conceivably choose any one of the options.

[LA Ute]

They would wait.

I think so too. The keys necessary to run the church would be present. There would be no pressing need to organize a Quorum of the First Presidency. The senior apostle would be entitled to receive revelation for the entire church, but if he is mentally incapacitated the Lord would work through the next in line.

The foregoing is simply speculation on my part.

[Levin]

I was hoping an option would have been just to select President Uchtdorf. It's what the whole membership wants anyway and we might as well get on with it.

[myboynoah]

This past weekend my wife and I were discussing what we thought looked like a noticably older President Monson (at least since the last time we saw him 6 months ago)... also the sudden deterioration of the health of Elder Hales got us talking about succession. Here is a little something I quickly compiled using wikipedia and Church resources:

Thomas S. Monson (age 84; ordained apostle October 10, 1963)
Boyd K. Packer (age 87; ordained apostle April 9, 1970)
L. Tom Perry (age 89; ordained apostle April 11, 1974)
Russel M. Nelson (age 87; ordained apostle April 12, 1984)
Dallin H. Oaks (age 79; ordained apostle May 3, 1984)
M. Russell Ballard (age 82; ordained apostle October 10, 1985)
Richard G. Scott (age 82; ordained apostle October 6, 1988)
Robert D. Hales (age 79; ordained apostle April 7, 1994)
Jeffrey R. Holland (age 70; ordained apostle June 23, 1994)
Henry B. Eyring (age 78; ordained apostle April 6, 1995)
Dieter F. Uchtdorf (age 70; ordained apostle October 7, 2004)
David A. Bednar (age 59; ordained apostle October 7, 2004)
Quentin L. Cook (age 71; ordained apostle October 11, 2007)
D. Todd Christofferson (age 66; ordained apostle April 10, 2008)
Neil L. Andersen (age 60; ordained apostle April 9, 2009)

(Note: Uchtdorf and Bednar were ordained on the same day, but Uchtdorf has seniority.)

Future prophets seem to be those that are 8-10 years younger than their immediate predecessors. Therefore, this order of succession seems likely:

Monson → Oaks → Holland (→ Uchtdorf) → Bednar

If Uchtdorf outlives Holland (which seems probable), then he'll put some time in before Bednar takes over. Bednar is going to be prophet for a long time... at least 10-15 years.

cheers.

Interesting work, SG.

[myboynoah]

And just have no first presidency? What if that went on for ten year? You may well be right, just curious why you think so.

Wasn't The Church led the the 12 under Brigham Young for 10s of years after JS was killed? I could see them doing that. It would be kind of cool.

[TripletDaddy]

Why do we retain an apostle that Is permanently incapacitated of the mind? If their calling is to act as a Special Witness, how can they do that if they are incapacitated by dementia or whatnot? Other than tradition,is there any practical reason? In the scenario mentioned above, the refusal to grant emeritus status would be the only thing precluding the reorganization of the First Presidency.

Hypothetically speaking, if an apostle were to become morally unfit for the calling, he would be released immediately. Why wouldn't mental incapacitation likewise make one unfit for the calling?

[DrumNFeather]

Why do we retain an apostle that Is permanently incapacitated of the mind? If their calling is to act as a Special Witness, how can they do that if they are incapacitated by dementia or whatnot? Other than tradition,is there any practical reason? In the scenario mentioned above, the refusal to grant emeritus status would be the only thing precluding the reorganization of the First Presidency.

Hypothetically speaking, if an apostle were to become morally unfit for the calling, he would be released immediately. Why wouldn't mental incapacitation likewise make one unfit for the calling?

How many times has this been the case? I ask because I honestly don't know how many times we've had mentally incapacitated apostles.

I would suspect in a case like Elder Hales (or Elder Worthlin towards the end of his life) they reduce the workload to almost nothing, or just local speaking assignments. Perhaps if someone's health situation were grave enough they would ask them if they wanted out...but I suspect once you've been called to be an apostle, you wouldn't want to just walk away from that.

[myboynoah]

Why do we retain an apostle that Is permanently incapacitated of the mind? If their calling is to act as a Special Witness, how can they do that if they are incapacitated by dementia or whatnot? Other than tradition,is there any practical reason? In the scenario mentioned above, the refusal to grant emeritus status would be the only thing precluding the reorganization of the First Presidency.

Hypothetically speaking, if an apostle were to become morally unfit for the calling, he would be released immediately. Why wouldn't mental incapacitation likewise make one unfit for the calling?

Probably tradition, plus I don't recall it having been a big issue in the past. I suppose that could all change if it became an issue. Maybe there's a doctrinal reason, but I don't know what it is.

[wuapinmon]

Why do we retain an apostle that Is permanently incapacitated of the mind? If their calling is to act as a Special Witness, how can they do that if they are incapacitated by dementia or whatnot? Other than tradition,is there any practical reason? In the scenario mentioned above, the refusal to grant emeritus status would be the only thing precluding the reorganization of the First Presidency.

Hypothetically speaking, if an apostle were to become morally unfit for the calling, he would be released immediately. Why wouldn't mental incapacitation likewise make one unfit for the calling?

Probably tradition, plus I don't recall it having been a big issue in the past. I suppose that could all change if it became an issue. Maybe there's a doctrinal reason, but I don't know what it is.

I remember being taught that Jesus only called "disciples" among the Nephites because there were already 12 Apostles. I know that there have been Apostles who weren't in the Q12 (e.g. Alvin Dyer), but the idea of emeritus apostle would probably vex the rank and file.

[happyone]

Wasn't The Church led the the 12 under Brigham Young for 10s of years after JS was killed? I could see them doing that. It would be kind of cool.

yes, although is wasn't 10s of years it was 3 yrs. He was ordained as Prophet in 1847. As aside both John Taylor (3 yrs) and Wilford Woodruff (2 yrs) led the church as Pres of the 12 before reorganizing the first presidency