Are these times really so bad?

[creekster]

Pardon the interruption Creekster but you took over the posting lead from DDD today. I say go out and celebrate by hitting a midnight showing of Twilight.

Actually, my wife and adughter ARE going to a midnight showing (as I recounted earlier this week) and I am going to supervise the eviction of a squatter from our chapel's parking lot. No, I am not kidding. I figure it is as good a simile as any for finally overtaking Triplet (even though I have no doubt he'll be back).

[creekster]

All I know is I would rather live now than at any time in the past. Maybe I am part of the wickedness.

I'm with you, except for the part of the wickedness stuff.

[Mormon Red Death]

I've thought a lot (okay, several minutes) lately about the perilous times in which we live and whether we're approaching the end of days. And we had the PH lesson recently about signs of the times and the second coming. But I wonder if we're really all that close to the end here, notwithstanding the disappearance of the PAC fortune on Wall Street.

The part I have trouble with is the belief, apparently held by many, that these are horrible times and wickedness has never been more rampant. Can't an argument be made that, on balance, things have never been better? Consider the historical plight of women. For most of recorded history, and with only a few notable exceptions (so far as I am aware, although I'm no historian), women have been chattel and never had any hope of genuine betterment. Though they haven't fully caught up yet to their male counterparts, women have never been better off, and there's reason to believe their lots will become better still. Similarly, for minorities, great strides have been made economically and socially--still a very long way to go, but aren't things better than ever? Even looking at the most squalid conditions on earth, such conditions have always existed, and probably in far larger proportions in the past.

Life on earth has pretty much always been "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," but hasn't it become less so in our day?

I realize I'm confusing societal progress with moral purity, and I'm not saying the Savior is thinking, "man, things are looking up, I think I'll hold off for awhile." But aren't characterizations of our time as being the most evil/wicked perhaps overstated a bit?

/s/ PollyAnnaCougar

I read a great book about this called

The progress paradox.. why things get better but people fell worse

http://www.amazon.com/Progress-Parad.../dp/0679463038

btw... the author is TMQ on espn.com

[ERCougar]

While we are making great moral progress in some areas -- civil rights, equality, more universal ideas of what constitutes 'justice,' it seems like the power of 'little people' has been on the decline.

In other words, these times ARE bad, because people, the citizens of the world, are losing control over the institutions that control our lives. The polarization of the wealth, which the Book of Mormon most admirably warns about, has not been more severe in ages. The result is that we live in a country that serves corporate interests over human interests, and those two sets of interests are often at odds with each other. So huge powerful institutions do horrible things, and we are powerless to stop them.

This is one of the big problems of our generation.

I GUARANTEE this isn't what the people in my ward are thinking about.

[ERCougar]

I completely agree with PAC on this one and it's one of my major pet-peeves at church. The last time this was brought up, I raised my hand and commented how I yearn for the good old days where we could send black people to the back of the bus, didn't have to eat in the same restaurants with them, wouldn't have to feel bad about sending away a pregnant daughter for a year while she had her baby, could beat up a gay (or black) person without fear of repercussion, and could control our wives and our households with abandon.

I find that most people who say these things aren't really thinking at all. I think our leadership shares some blame for this. You can't listen to a session of GC without hearing about how bad times are now (likely a function of having older leaders--I'll probably be saying the same things when I'm old...). People just echo what they hear.

[ERCougar]

I read a great book about this called

The progress paradox.. why things get better but people fell worse

http://www.amazon.com/Progress-Parad.../dp/0679463038

btw... the author is TMQ on espn.com

I haven't read the book but I bet it relates to the theory of relative deprivation--something I came across in high school that is amazingly true (and useful). The idea is that any time you propose a planned improvement, you set expectations up, and when you fall short of these, people perceive their situations worse than if you hadn't done anything at all, even if you do improve their situations.

Set expectations low and pleasantly surprise people. It works with kids, patients, coworkers, everyone.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Set expectations low and pleasantly surprise people. It works with kids, patients, coworkers, everyone.

So maybe "Quest for Perfection" wasn't such a good idea for a slogan after all.

[RobinFinderson]

I GUARANTEE this isn't what the people in my ward are thinking about.

Which is a problem, don't you think?

Last night Faith and I were discussing the hardships going on for families at the high school where she teaches. She is good friends with one of the school psychologists who says that she has never seen a student body under more stress than this one today. The numbers of students on suicide watch is skyrocketing. More children living in cars, shelters, or on the streets. More kids dealing with divorce. The sudden jump in these numbers, the psychologist believes, began shortly after the economy began to collapse.

So why talk about economic collapse in a thread about comparative wickedness of different eras?

But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin. (d&c 49:20)

For if you are not equal in earthly things you can not be equal in obtaining heavenly things. (d&c 78:6)

The rapid decline of Christ's people in 4th Nephi is entirely attributed to economic class division.

[ERCougar]

Which is a problem, don't you think?

Yup. We have a very funny attitude about wealth and its distribution in our church.

[ERCougar]

So maybe "Quest for Perfection" wasn't such a good idea for a slogan after all.

Lol...good point.