Losing Celestial Glory

[wuapinmon]

So, I'm in Asheville, NC today, and I went to my mom's ward. The EQ here is a lively bunch full of people from all walks of life and backgrounds who are well read and curious about the why behind the what.

So, our lesson was on the priesthood, and the discussion led to exaltation, and someone asked if it was possible to lose the Celestial Kingdom, once gained. One guy tried to say yes, but the EQP shut him down, saying, "well talk about this privately," like it was some kind of secret.

I'm fairly certain that a son of perdition is one who has had his "calling and election made sure" only to waste it. I also wonder what the scriptures like Rev. 20 that speak of Satan being loosed for a season after the Millenium mean.

Anyway, interesting.

[Babs]

Sounds like an REM song gone awry.

[Mormon Red Death]

So, I'm in Asheville, NC today, and I went to my mom's ward. The EQ here is a lively bunch full of people from all walks of life and backgrounds who are well read and curious about the why behind the what.

I hear asheville and think of this

An angel appeared
in a holy vision
Stood by my bedside
in shivering light
Spoke my name
Told me my mission
I could not believe I was hearing him right
Because he said, 'Go, my son, go...

Always go to East Asheville Hardware
Before you go to Lowe's

He said, "Go to East Asheville Hardware
Before you go to Lowe's

You'll help to keep them open
I'm worried they might close
From the stiff competition
From the national conglomerate
With the full page ad
in the color section of the Sunday paper supplement
and stacks of plastic swimming pools
and seven brands of power tools
and rows and rows of registers
all having nice days

But no, you go, he said to me with light around his face
He said, You go first to that age-old place
To that old wooden door
that you have to close behind you
To the wide-board wooden floor
worn down soft

To the real thing
Good advice, quality at a fair price
And know that they know how deep the frost goes here.

Sure there's stuff you'll have to find at Paty's, Lowe's or Sears

But go to East Asheville Hardware
Go to East Asheville Hardware
Before it disappears.

[Shaka]

I don't think of that song but I think of David Wilcox who wrote it. He's my favorite acoustic musician.

I hear asheville and think of this

An angel appeared
in a holy vision
Stood by my bedside
in shivering light
Spoke my name
Told me my mission
I could not believe I was hearing him right
Because he said, 'Go, my son, go...

Always go to East Asheville Hardware
Before you go to Lowe's

He said, "Go to East Asheville Hardware
Before you go to Lowe's

You'll help to keep them open
I'm worried they might close
From the stiff competition
From the national conglomerate
With the full page ad
in the color section of the Sunday paper supplement
and stacks of plastic swimming pools
and seven brands of power tools
and rows and rows of registers
all having nice days

But no, you go, he said to me with light around his face
He said, You go first to that age-old place
To that old wooden door
that you have to close behind you
To the wide-board wooden floor
worn down soft

To the real thing
Good advice, quality at a fair price
And know that they know how deep the frost goes here.

Sure there's stuff you'll have to find at Paty's, Lowe's or Sears

But go to East Asheville Hardware
Go to East Asheville Hardware
Before it disappears.

[wuapinmon]

I didn't know that song, but I dig it. Gracias.

[Solon]

Asheville is a pretty town. I know it's a little touristy, but my kid loved the Mellow Mushroom. (She loved the one in Boone too.)

Oh, and I don't know anything about gaining or losing celestial glory.

[Uncle Ted]

So, our lesson was on the priesthood, and the discussion led to exaltation, and someone asked if it was possible to lose the Celestial Kingdom, once gained. One guy tried to say yes, but the EQP shut him down, saying, "well talk about this privately," like it was some kind of secret.

I'm fairly certain that a son of perdition is one who has had his "calling and election made sure" only to waste it. I also wonder what the scriptures like Rev. 20 that speak of Satan being loosed for a season after the Millenium mean.

Anyway, interesting.

Maybe this EQP needs to shut down wikipedia as well...

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing"]Second anointing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[il Padrino Ute]

Sounds like an REM song gone awry.

[Tim]

Asheville is a pretty town. I know it's a little touristy, but my kid loved the Mellow Mushroom. (She loved the one in Boone too.)

Oh, and I don't know anything about gaining or losing celestial glory.

We have four Mellow Mushroom locations here in the Triangle. Tasty pizza.

[jay santos]

General conference talks and official church publications are getting more and more generic. The detail and analysis on topics like this and other speculative topics concerning deification, reason for polygamy, specifics of exaltation and the hereafter, etc. have pretty much dried up. I think the brethren are sending a clear message. "We don't know as much about this stuff as we originally asserted as a church, and we're scaling doctrine back to the basics found in the canon." I think members have a responsibility to get on board with this.

[wuapinmon]

General conference talks and official church publications are getting more and more generic. The detail and analysis on topics like this and other speculative topics concerning deification, reason for polygamy, specifics of exaltation and the hereafter, etc. have pretty much dried up. I think the brethren are sending a clear message. "We don't know as much about this stuff as we originally asserted as a church, and we're scaling doctrine back to the basics found in the canon." I think members have a responsibility to get on board with this.

Interesting. I disagree about your interpretation of responsibility, but I can see why you feel that way.

[Mormon Red Death]

I don't think of that song but I think of David Wilcox who wrote it. He's my favorite acoustic musician.

I have seen him a couple of times and he hasnt disappointed.

[Sullyute]

General conference talks and official church publications are getting more and more generic. The detail and analysis on topics like this and other speculative topics concerning deification, reason for polygamy, specifics of exaltation and the hereafter, etc. have pretty much dried up. I think the brethren are sending a clear message. "We don't know as much about this stuff as we originally asserted as a church, and we're scaling doctrine back to the basics found in the canon." I think members have a responsibility to get on board with this.

With all of the changes the church has made over the last 90 years or so, I have wondered if the same message that is preached today was preached back then if the those early saints would have joined or not?

I agree that much of what was taught back then was purely speculative and much has been abandoned, but it also seems like that speculation was part of the lure of mormonism. Our teachings today are not that much different from many christian denominations other than we claim restored priesthood authority and temple rites.

[jay santos]

With all of the changes the church has made over the last 90 years or so, I have wondered if the same message that is preached today was preached back then if the those early saints would have joined or not?

I agree that much of what was taught back then was purely speculative and much has been abandoned, but it also seems like that speculation was part of the lure of mormonism. Our teachings today are not that much different from many christian denominations other than we claim restored priesthood authority and temple rites.

Good question, but keep in mind the extra stuff didn't come for a while and didn't get highly publicized until Brigham Young or the late Nauvoo period at the earliest.

[Sullyute]

Good question, but keep in mind the extra stuff didn't come for a while and didn't get highly publicized until Brigham Young or the late Nauvoo period at the earliest.

You are probably right. I haven't read any of the missionary tracts that were printed back in the day, particularly in England, to see what they talked about, but my understanding is that it mostly concerned having a modern prophet, twelve apostles, book of mormon, and a general restoration of the new testament church. However, I guess I should have been more specific when I said early saints, as I was thinking generally about those that joined in the 19th century.

On re-reading your original post I am more persuaded to your line of thinking. If, and I think this is subjective depending on the general authority or apostle, leaders of the church are willing to back away from speculative teachings and acknowledge that they simply do not know as much as they might have thought we knew about "gospel doctrine", then the saints should also follow suit.