In praise of "modern revelation"

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  • SeattleUte
    Faith crisis consultant
    • Nov 2008
    • 20837

    #1

    In praise of "modern revelation"

    We should all thank God for modern revelation. Here's how it works:

    Brigham Young: “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” But it would not, could not always be so. The last remaining state laws against the mixing of white blood with the seed of Cain—not to mention the mixing of metaphors—were struck down by a Supreme Court decision of 1967.

    Pressure grew on the Mormon Church in the next decade to relax its ban on the recruitment of blacks to the priesthood, and to abandon those parts of scripture and theology that explained the inferiority and loathsomeness of blacks, their despised condition, in terms of their (assumed) behavior in a previous existence. In particular, a plan to erect a temple in São Paulo brought the Mormons up against the problem that none of their Brazilian recruits were liable to be of anything other than “mixed blood.”

    In the face of such inconveniences, in 1978, the leaders of the church experienced, in an “upper room” in Salt Lake City, a highly convenient Pentecost, and with it a revelation ending the ban against black priests. Mormons were still counseled by their church President, Spencer W. Kimball, not to “cross racial lines in dating and marriage”—but this was presented as a practical matter, not a spiritual commandment. Meanwhile certain excisions were made, to render The Book of Mormon less embarrassing, and the text of II Nephi 30:6 was rewritten in 1981, to prophesy that righteous Indians would receive a blessing from the hand of God and that “their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and delightsome people.” In the original version it had been foretold that the Indians would become a “white and a delightsome people.” (The Jews will also become delightsome, thank goodness, when they agree to believe in Jesus Christ.)

    This willingness, admirable in its modest way, to jettison or modify revelation in order to conform to public opinion, has been characteristic of Mormonism since the long dispute over polygamy: in the end, it would seem, they get the point. They listen to criticism over the decades. They make some furtive adjustments. They clean up their act. And, at this rate, one might predict—one might be inclined to prophesy—that within a decade or two they will have reformed their teaching on homosexuality, which comes in for much good-humored ragging in the Broadway show, including one of the wittiest of the songs. It is as if the search for acceptability matters more, in the long term, than doctrine. In this sense, the candidatures of Mitt Romney, sacrificing his most significant legislative achievement on the altar of Republican censoriousness, and Jon Huntsman, sacrificing no less than his old master Obama, look like expert strategies of Mormon assimilationism.
    Hearing that the same men who brought us *South Park* were mounting a musical to be called *The Book of Mormon*, we were tempted to turn away, as from an inevitable massacre. How could the Mormon faith, with its wobbly stories of golden tablets dug up and then lost to view, its pseudo-archaeological racism, its prevarications over the practice of polygamy, its almost exact resemblance to a cult, stand up to all that gleeful juvenile ragging?
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift
  • il Padrino Ute
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 19161

    #2
    Your Fathers Day must not have been very good if you're griping for the umpteenth time about this.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


    "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

    Comment

    • SeattleUte
      Faith crisis consultant
      • Nov 2008
      • 20837

      #3
      Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
      Your Fathers Day must not have been very good if you're griping for the umpteenth time about this.
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

      --Jonathan Swift

      Comment

      • TripletDaddy
        sweet triple
        • Nov 2008
        • 58186

        #4
        I think the authors point is that Mormons "get it."

        I would agree with him.
        Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

        sigpic

        Comment

        • SeattleUte
          Faith crisis consultant
          • Nov 2008
          • 20837

          #5
          Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
          I think the authors point is that Mormons "get it."

          I would agree with him.


          Do you mean regular Mormons get it?
          When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

          --Jonathan Swift

          Comment

          • TripletDaddy
            sweet triple
            • Nov 2008
            • 58186

            #6
            Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post


            Do you mean regular Mormons get it?
            I don't know any regular Mormons.

            But based on the passage you quoted, it appears that the author is praising Mormonism's willingness to grow, improve itself from within, and have a social conscience that is adaptable to the needs of its constituents. That despite the inner conflicts that naturally accompany any large organization, ultimately Mormons get the point. He even predicts greater things for the Church in the relatively near future.

            Thank you for posting this, actually. It is nice to see a publication as well respected as the NYT speak so effusively about the LDS Church.
            Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

            sigpic

            Comment

            • myboynoah
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 21719

              #7
              In the context of the musical, the openness to ragging, the patience under blasphemous attack, become less mysterious. It is as if they understand the ridicule that they are currently undergoing at the Eugene O’Neill Theater to constitute a sort of hazing. To get through the ordeal they must keep their good humor, and it is worth doing so because, at the end of the hazing, their reward will be a greater acceptance in society. Some hand is going to clap them on the shoulder and say: Well done, you managed to survive. And the audience is going to feel better about Mormons than they did before, and better about themselves for all that better feeling.
              All togther now, "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

              Maybe this is what Jesus meant when He said, "but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
              Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

              For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

              Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

              Comment

              • SeattleUte
                Faith crisis consultant
                • Nov 2008
                • 20837

                #8
                Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                I don't know any regular Mormons.

                But based on the passage you quoted, it appears that the author is praising Mormonism's willingness to grow, improve itself from within, and have a social conscience that is adaptable to the needs of its constituents. That despite the inner conflicts that naturally accompany any large organization, ultimately Mormons get the point. He even predicts greater things for the Church in the relatively near future.

                Thank you for posting this, actually. It is nice to see a publication as well respected as the NYT speak so effusively about the LDS Church.
                I think he is saying Mormons are always the last to get it, and this play is trying to help them get more of it. Or, the play is like a bid: Mormons, laugh with this play, don't get mad and defensive, and we stipulate that means you get it, or enough of it.

                BTW, it's not the NY Times.
                When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                --Jonathan Swift

                Comment

                • il Padrino Ute
                  Junior Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 19161

                  #9
                  Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                  You know what I mean, but I'll humor you and point it out: Mormons have a racist past.
                  "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                  "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                  Comment

                  • Katy Lied
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 9435

                    #10
                    My parents engaged in mixed marital relations prior to 1978.

                    In one state, my parents could not secure a rental contract on a house because of my father's race; the lease was signed only by my mother who was an acceptable race, even though her husband was the breadwinner. The Landlord was Chinese; damn those racist chinese, I am still pyschologically damaged lo these many years later. (Sorry Surfah) I spend hours online on the Asian chat boards complaining about this outrageous treatment. Of course things are different now, but the bitterness remains. It actually took a fair housing law to force change!

                    In the city of Santa Ana, my father was once kicked out of a public swimming pool because he was mistakenly thought to be mexican. He informed the lifeguards that he wasnt, but it was a true case of skin color discrimination. The Lifeguards were californian; damn those racist californians, he is still pyschologically damaged lo these many years later. (Sorry Surfah) I spend hours online on the Californian chat boards complaining about this outrageous treatment. Of course things are different now, but the bitterness remains.

                    Comment

                    • Surfah
                      Where's Wallace?
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 33726

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                      My parents engaged in mixed marital relations prior to 1978.

                      In one state, my parents could not secure a rental contract on a house because of my father's race; the lease was signed only by my mother who was an acceptable race, even though her husband was the breadwinner. The Landlord was Chinese; damn those racist chinese, I am still pyschologically damaged lo these many years later. (Sorry Surfah) I spend hours online on the Asian chat boards complaining about this outrageous treatment. Of course things are different now, but the bitterness remains. It actually took a fair housing law to force change!

                      In the city of Santa Ana, my father was once kicked out of a public swimming pool because he was mistakenly thought to be mexican. He informed the lifeguards that he wasnt, but it was a true case of skin color discrimination. The Lifeguards were californian; damn those racist californians, he is still pyschologically damaged lo these many years later. (Sorry Surfah) I spend hours online on the Californian chat boards complaining about this outrageous treatment. Of course things are different now, but the bitterness remains.
                      No worries. You have to watch out for those pakes. Shortly after my parents married they traveled to Rigby, ID where my mother is from for a small reception and part of their honeymoon. My dad woke one morning to go for a jog and said he had some people follow him. Later someone actually asked if they could touch his skin.
                      "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                      -Turtle
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • Uncle Ted
                        The Big 12 money shot.
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 28853

                        #12
                        Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
                        You know what I mean, but I'll humor you and point it out: Mormons have a racist past.
                        I wouldn't say it is so much in the past and this intolerance was brought on thanks to the expressed opinions of the mormon leaders. In my lifetime, I had leaders quote racist crap from BY, Bruce R. McConkie, Mark E. Petersen, Kimball, Benson, etc. I grew up thinking God loved me less because I had a good looking tan. Today, while there are far less racist mormons, I see many leaders fanning the flames of intolerance on other issues such as same-sex marriage.
                        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                        Comment

                        • SeattleUte
                          Faith crisis consultant
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 20837

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                          I wouldn't say it is so much in the past and this intolerance was brought on thanks to the expressed opinions of the mormon leaders. In my lifetime, I had leaders quote racist crap from BY, Bruce R. McConkie, Mark E. Petersen, Kimball, Benson, etc. I grew up thinking God loved me less because I had a good looking tan. Today, while there are far less racist mormons, I see many leaders fanning the flames of intolerance on other issues such as same-sex marriage.
                          The real problem today is the refusal by LDS leaders to be honest and take responsiblity for past racism. This claim or insinuation that the racism was God's will until 1978 is part of the problem. The quotation from the article I included above summed up well the ridiculous irony of a claim to modern revelation, and being the last organization in the civilized world that is not consciously outside the maintstream to "get it". As long as LDS leaders refuse to address in a candid and responsible way the official story regarding LDS racism, local leaders will continue to perpetuate racist ideas that hurt people including children. The outrage is how easily LDS leaders could put a stop to all this ignorance and hurtful conduct. The don't do it because their aura of infallability is precious to them. It's this perception of infalliblity that people refer to when they say the LDS Church looks like a cult. The day that an LDS leader steps up and honestly condemns the historical racism and says it had nothing to do with God the LDS Church will change at an atomic level.
                          When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                          --Jonathan Swift

                          Comment

                          • Jeff Lebowski
                            Corporate lackey for Jesus
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 69537

                            #14
                            That was without a doubt the most mean-spirited (toward LDS) BOM musical review I have read yet. Ironic that this is the one that resonates with you.
                            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                            Comment

                            • byu71
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 22070

                              #15
                              Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                              The real problem today is the refusal by LDS leaders to be honest and take responsiblity for past racism. This claim or insinuation that the racism was God's will until 1978 is part of the problem. The quotation from the article I included above summed up well the ridiculous irony of a claim to modern revelation, and being the last organization in the civilized world that is not consciously outside the maintstream to "get it". As long as LDS leaders refuse to address in a candid and responsible way the official story regarding LDS racism, local leaders will continue to perpetuate racist ideas that hurt people including children. The outrage is how easily LDS leaders could put a stop to all this ignorance and hurtful conduct. The don't do it because their aura of infallability is precious to them. It's this perception of infalliblity that people refer to when they say the LDS Church looks like a cult. The day that an LDS leader steps up and honestly condemns the historical racism and says it had nothing to do with God the LDS Church will change at an atomic level.

                              If they take "responsibility" will you be baptized or at the least quit harping on the church and it's leaders?

                              Comment

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