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  • History of the Garment

    Someone sent this to me today:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/41977917/H...of-the-Garment

    I had no idea about any of this:
    Even after the saints moved to Utah territory they did not generally wear the garment outside the temple. It was only worn during the true order of prayer which was regularly done outside the temple by individuals and groups. In fact, it was expected that the saints would attend to this type of prayer within their own homes, and they had altars in their homes for this purpose. After the turn of the 20th century many of the saints ceased to do this in their homes and it was then only done in the upper rooms of wards and stake centers, until about 1970 when the last vestiges of TOP were removed from all church bldgs except the temple.
    In 1923, because of changes in clothing styles in America and elsewhere, and since the brethren knew women in the church were rolling up the garment on their arms and legs to do housework, as well as so they could join in with the current dress styles of the day, the First Presidency decided to allow the garment to be changed. The sleeve was shortened to the elbow, the leg just below the knee, buttons instead of strings, collar eliminated, and the crotch closed. Although Joseph F. Smith had previously stated that the garment must never be changed because “the pattern of endowment garments was revealed from heaven” (Messages of the First Prescy, 5:110), the First Presidency later led by President Heber J. Grant issued a letter on June 14, 1923 stating that “no fixed pattern of the temple garment has ever been given” by God, and he ordered all temples to take down the previous instructions of Joseph F. Smith and burn them.
    Some time during the next ten years, the sleeves in the garment were again shortened to just below the shoulder and the leg shortened to the knee. To reassure the saints that the brethren had not done anything wrong, Apostle Melvin J. Ballard stated “the fact is that we have not departed one particle from the all important and essential things pertaining to the garments, which are the marks. The length of the sleeve, leg, etc, has been the modification which the Presidency has permitted because there was no specification with reference to these from the beginning” (Ltr, Dec 1, 1933).
    In 1936 a temple committee comprised of 4 apostles recommended to the First Presidency “that we authorize the wearing of garments without sleeves [tank tops] which conform in all other respects to the pattern at present agreed upon....we feel sure that such a modification will greatly please many good women through the Church, and we have not been able to see that we are yielding any vital thing in this slight change” (Ltr to the First Prescy, Apr 22, 1936). It is unknown why this recommendation for a sleeveless style top was never acted upon, but it may have been because it occurred near the death of Heber J. Grant which may have caused their request to be lost in the paperwork shuffle of the new Presidency.

    The important point here is that such a modification was approved by the temple committee, which suggests that such modifications do not violate the overall purpose of the garment. In 1964 the First Presidency told members of the church who were in the military that “the marks should be placed on small pieces of cloth and sewed upon the underwear while being worn, then removed when the underwear is sent to the laundry, and re-sewed upon the underwear returned.” (Ltr Aug 31, 1964). Here again, as with Hyrum’s shirt, it appears that the marks were more important, not what held them in place. It could be underwear and a T-shirt rather than a “garment.”
    We must note that Joseph’s garment was designed in accordance with the dress standards of his day, which was, that clothing was supposed to cover the body from neck to wrist to ankle just as their clothes did. Some of the original garments were made of wool (as well as unbleached muslin and bound with turkey red) which made them extremely uncomfortable, especially during hot humid days. Consequently, Joseph would occasionally take them off when it was hot. In 1845 W. W. Phelps told the assembled endowed saints that “Joseph told him one day that he [Joseph] had laid aside his garment on account of the hot weather” (JHCK, Dec 21, 1845). Joseph did not believe they had to always be worn, and that hot weather was a good enough reason not to wear them.

  • #2
    In 1923, because of changes in clothing styles in America and elsewhere, and since the brethren knew women in the church were rolling up the garment on their arms and legs to do housework, as well as so they could join in with the current dress styles of the day, the First Presidency decided to allow the garment to be changed. The sleeve was shortened to the elbow, the leg just below the knee, buttons instead of strings, collar eliminated, and the crotch closed.


    Scandalous!

    Comment


    • #3
      This is pretty interesting stuff, scottie.

      There's more to be said, i'm sure, about 19th century influences on the temple garments.

      LDS have long believed that the garment-tradition goes back to Adam & Eve:

      http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vg...____&hideNav=1

      While I don't think the quotes scottie shared necessarily refute that belief, I think the 19th century might be more influential than is commonly believed.
      "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
      -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

      Comment


      • #4
        I won't be wearing my garments for the next two days. It's going to be 102 and I'm canoeing down a river. At least Joseph Smith set the example.
        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
          I won't be wearing my garments for the next two days. It's going to be 102 and I'm canoeing down a river. At least Joseph Smith set the example.
          We had a Stake YM 150 mile cycling trip last year during the hottest stretch of the summer in So Cal.

          It was weird seeing adults wearing their Gs under their lycra shorts as I know fully well they don't wear them during their club rides. I was the only adult out of 8 that didn't wear them during the rides as I prefer to not wear them when I ride or go to the gym because I sweat a lot.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SportUTE View Post
            We had a Stake YM 150 mile cycling trip last year during the hottest stretch of the summer in So Cal.

            It was weird seeing adults wearing their Gs under their lycra shorts as I know fully well they don't wear them during their club rides. I was the only adult out of 8 that didn't wear them during the rides as I prefer to not wear them when I ride or go to the gym because I sweat a lot.
            I roll my eyes when i see people wearing them to play basketball. But I shouldn't care either way, so I just brush it off. As long as they keep them covered up.
            Now, if you are wearing a hat to play basketball...well, I just can't brush that off so easily.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jacob View Post
              I roll my eyes when i see people wearing them to play basketball. But I shouldn't care either way, so I just brush it off. As long as they keep them covered up.
              Now, if you are wearing a hat to play basketball...well, I just can't brush that off so easily.
              I used to play basketball with this older guy (late 50s? early 60s?) who would wear his scoop neck garment top underneath one of those rec-league type tank top bball jerseys.

              Then he separated his shoulder during a game and hasn't come back. None of the no garment wearers have had that sort of injury.
              Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

              "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

              GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

              Comment


              • #8
                I mentioned before that at both the Top of Utah Marathon and the Utah Valley Marathon I saw multiple men wearing garments during the race. Not anything close to a majority, but definitely double digits each time. I suppose they could have been wearing knee-length white compression shorts under basketball shorts. Or, in one case, cargo shorts (!).
                Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by falafel View Post
                  I used to play basketball with this older guy (late 50s? early 60s?) who would wear his scoop neck garment top underneath one of those rec-league type tank top bball jerseys.

                  Then he separated his shoulder during a game and hasn't come back. None of the no garment wearers have had that sort of injury.
                  I always volunteer to play skins. It gives me a competitive advantage since I sweat so much no one wants to guard me.
                  "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                  The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    I always volunteer to play skins. It gives me a competitive advantage since I sweat so much no one wants to guard me.
                    I used to play this guy in high school that would sweat like crazy. Even if you tried to guard him close you'd slip right off.
                    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is some interesting information presented in that link, but it reads like a bleacher report article.
                      Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                      God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                      Alessandro Manzoni

                      Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                      pelagius

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by scottie View Post
                        Someone sent this to me today:

                        http://www.scribd.com/doc/41977917/H...of-the-Garment

                        I had no idea about any of this:

                        Some time during the next ten years, the sleeves in the garment were again shortened to just below the shoulder and the leg shortened to the knee. To reassure the saints that the brethren had not done anything wrong, Apostle Melvin J. Ballard stated “the fact is that we have not departed one particle from the all important and essential things pertaining to the garments, which are the marks. The length of the sleeve, leg, etc, has been the modification which the Presidency has permitted because there was no specification with reference to these from the beginning” (Ltr, Dec 1, 1933).
                        I love the fact that there is a part of the saints who are rolling up their garment sleeves and legs to meet the current fashions despite warnings from the prophet (JFS) and then there is the other part that think the prophet (HJG) has dabbled in apostacy because he makes the same alterations official a couple years later. It appears that the saints are not listening to the prophet either way.

                        Side note: I wonder if there are any changes in the church that the prophet/brethren would like to enact but are afraid that the saints won't accept?
                        "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nikuman View Post
                          I mentioned before that at both the Top of Utah Marathon and the Utah Valley Marathon I saw multiple men wearing garments during the race. Not anything close to a majority, but definitely double digits each time. I suppose they could have been wearing knee-length white compression shorts under basketball shorts. Or, in one case, cargo shorts (!).
                          Those who shun the garment for athletic events may be taking unnecessary risks. Keep in mind that of the four brethren in Carthage Jail during the martyrdom, Willard Richards was the only one wearing the garment at the time, and he was the only one who didn't get shot.

                          To enhance my survival chances at the Disney Half, I may wear mine beneath my tank top and hot pants.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                            Those who shun the garment for athletic events may be taking unnecessary risks. Keep in mind that of the four brethren in Carthage Jail during the martyrdom, Willard Richards was the only one wearing the garment at the time, and he was the only one who didn't get shot.

                            To enhance my survival chances at the Disney Half, I may wear mine beneath my tank top and hot pants.
                            I wonder how much of that was garments and how much of that was hiding behind the door with a mattress on top of him. Given his girth, maybe they thought he was the mattress. (Also, he apparently had his ear grazed by a bullet).

                            If you go with the extra support version, you may get the extra benefit of some thigh compression. Just sayin'.
                            Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nikuman View Post
                              I wonder how much of that was garments and how much of that was hiding behind the door with a mattress on top of him. Given his girth, maybe they thought he was the mattress. (Also, he apparently had his ear grazed by a bullet).

                              If you go with the extra support version, you may get the extra benefit of some thigh compression. Just sayin'.
                              As always, you're a great help with my efforts to become a runner. I see great value in carrying a mattress on this bold adventure. My wardrobe will now be provided by Nike, Asics, and Beautyrest.

                              Comment

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