Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[TripletDaddy]

Ah, yes, but jihadist murder is a fairly rare occurence in the States. I'd use care in making unwarranted assumptions when it comes to an epidemic as prolific as adultery. I'd wager that there are more than a few here who have faced the pain of infidelity, and I doubt they appreciate your inappropriately (though typical) lighthearted take on the matter.

Listen, one person here has previously voiced the importance he places on trust in a marriage and the ability to confide, not withhold secrets. He was warned and reminded us all that poor/lack of communication can wreak havoc on a marriage. Today, he expresses his opinion that those men who cheat and hide it are really acting out of CYA.

You called him a jerk for his troubles.

I am the one advocating for open communication and total honesty and my take is inappropriate? Perhaps you should review the thread.

[Babs]

But didn't you do the same thing before?

Those are celebrities. They don't count.

[Babs]

I am the one advocating for open communication and total honesty and my take is inappropriate? Perhaps you should review the thread.

your take? You are advocating subjecting a spouse to unnecessary pain and suffering strictly to satisfy your own sense of self-righteousness (yay me! I'm honest! Not when I can get laid, of course, but otherwise I'm totally there!!) and improve your standing with the church.

Talk about a whitewashed tomb.

[creekster]

your take? You are advocating subjecting a spouse to unnecessary pain and suffering strictly to satisfy your own sense of self-righteousness (yay me! I'm honest! Not when I can get laid, of course, but otherwise I'm totally there!!) and improve your standing with the church.

Talk about a whitewashed tomb.

I think that is unfair. If his only purpose for suggeting confession was to improve or maintain hsi standing in the church below, I would agree with you. I think his purpose is more than that. CONfession to priesthood authority is important for certain sins and, more significantly, can be essential for the sinner to actually overcome the sin. I have seen the latter dynamic take palce and for some people I beleive confession is absolutely irreplacebale as a step of repentance and self-forgivneness.

[SeattleUte]

I think that is unfair. If his only purpose for suggeting confession was to improve or maintain hsi standing in the church below, I would agree with you. I think his purpose is more than that. CONfession to priesthood authority is important for certain sins and, more significantly, can be essential for the sinner to actually overcome the sin. I have seen the latter dynamic take palce and for some people I beleive confession is absolutely irreplacebale as a step of repentance and self-forgivneness.

It's kind of a vicious circle isn't it. They confess to the people who make them feel guilty for not confessing. Then they feel better for having confessed to those people. I guarantee if they told themsleves, "I don't care about these people, they have no dominion over me," he wouldn't feel better.

[TripletDaddy]

your take? You are advocating subjecting a spouse to unnecessary pain and suffering strictly to satisfy your own sense of self-righteousness (yay me! I'm honest! Not when I can get laid, of course, but otherwise I'm totally there!!) and improve your standing with the church.

Talk about a whitewashed tomb.

This has nothing to do with the Church. you can be atheists for all I care, but if you are cheating on your spouse, you have violated a personal and important bond of trust. Self-righteousness has nothing to do with it, either. It has everything to do with honesty and communication. And fidelity, as well. how can you be faithful if you are not honest?

Also, admitting the adultery is not the root of the pain. Committing adultery is the root of the pain.

Your religious strawman was weak. Try again.

This is amusing that you are attacking me for advocating honesty, while you defend the "I prefer to be deceived" turret. Strange battle plan, but I am game.

[TripletDaddy]

I think that is unfair. If his only purpose for suggeting confession was to improve or maintain hsi standing in the church below, I would agree with you. I think his purpose is more than that. CONfession to priesthood authority is important for certain sins and, more significantly, can be essential for the sinner to actually overcome the sin. I have seen the latter dynamic take palce and for some people I beleive confession is absolutely irreplacebale as a step of repentance and self-forgivneness.

Keep in mind that in no place in this thread have I worried about what the Bishop thinks of the Cheater. I am focused simply on the marital relationship.

If you are cheating on your spouse, you are deceitful and a liar. If you don't admit your indiscretion to your spouse, you simply compound the lie and the deceit.

[SeattleUte]

Great idea. Seriously, though, doesn't everybody pick and choose what they believe in the Church and in other aspects of life to a greater or lesser degree, though?

I recently went to an interventional cardiology conference and watched a presenter do some angioplasty/stent procedures. There were some aspects of the procedures he performed that I thought were great and I learned a few things. There were other things he did that I thought were stupid. I didn't raise a ruckus at the conference and tell him and the other cardiologists that I thought he sucked. I just made some personal notes of the roughly 50% of the stuff he did that I thought was pretty good and the roughly 50% where he kind of sucked and I'm better than him. I was still glad I went to the conference even though I disagreed with a very large portion of this guy's decisions and techniques. In fact, the stuff he did that was wrong was almost as educational as the stuff he did correctly, because it helped solidify my understanding and conviction that my approach is superior.

I do pretty much the same thing at Church.

I think you are unusual. The LDS Church is about control and coersion, and this thread is a prime example.

[SeattleUte]

Keep in mind that in no place in this thread have I worried about what the Bishop thinks of the Cheater. I am focused simply on the marital relationship.

If you are cheating on your spouse, you are deceitful and a liar. If you don't admit your indiscretion to your spouse, you simply compound the lie and the deceit.

So are you saying you've never lied to your spouse?

[creekster]

It's kind of a vicious circle isn't it. They confess to the people who make them feel guilty for not confessing. Then they feel better for having confessed to those people. I guarantee if they told themsleves, "I don't care about these people, they have no dominion over me," he wouldn't feel better.

No. It is absolutely not a vicious circle. Have you not seen this with your children? ONe of them does something wrong and they come to you to discuss ti and as you listen and discuss and express your love you can see the burden lift, the feeling of relief is palpable. Many confessors see the priesthood authority as a representative of God. I realize you don't, and many here don't, but many beleivers do. For them, it is not a guilt laced affair that leaves them bitter. To the contrarym, it is a guilt-lifting and enervating excperience that leaves them much happier and feeling like they are pointed in the correct direction.

One of the flaws in your tireless criticism of the chuch is that you assume at base everyone believes what you believe but that they are pretending iotherwise. This is simply not the case. As sure as you are that there is nothign to it, others are equally certain God is listening to them. This makes all the difference, and you would do well to respect that as you analyze the topics we discuss here.

[SeattleUte]

No. It is absolutely not a vicious circle. Have you not seen this with your children? ONe of them does something wrong and they come to you to discuss ti and as you listen and discuss and express your love you can see the burden lift, the feeling of relief is palpable. Many confessors see the priesthood authority as a representative of God. I realize you don't, and many here don't, but many beleivers do. For them, it is not a guilt laced affair that leaves them bitter. To the contrarym, it is a guilt-lifting and enervating excperience that leaves them much happier and feeling like they are pointed in the correct direction.

One of the flaws in your tireless criticism of the chuch is that you assume at base everyone believes what you believe but that they are pretending iotherwise. This is simply not the case. As sure as you are that there is nothign to it, others are equally certain God is listening to them. This makes all the difference, and you would do well to respect that as you analyze the topics we discuss here.

A. parents are authority figures like church leaders.

B. One of the flaws of the LDS church is it regards its adult member as children and treats them that way in almost every sense.

[Guest]

They confess to the people who make them feel guilty for not confessing. Then they feel better for having confessed to those people.

Remove the church from the equation.

Remove all religion from the question.

On its own, does confession (admission of wrongdoing and asking for pardon) have any cathartic effect on the offending party? On the offended? In the foundation of long-lasting meaningful relationships? That is the question at hand, for me.

Do the costs of the asking for pardon and the relief of the truth outweigh the damage the truth can cause?

[TripletDaddy]

So are you saying you've never lied to your spouse?

Did I?

[CardiacCoug]

It's kind of a vicious circle isn't it.

Definitely a vicious cycle. I agree.

Kind of like the vicious cycle that occurs with some gay people in the Church: A devout LDS teenager decides he's gay and confesses this to his Bishop and parents. He then is told by his Bishop and his parents that his sexual orientation is immoral and that God would never make somebody that way -- it's the result of sin. The kid feels so guilty and unable to reconcile his gayness to his religion that he spirals downhill and eventually kills himself.

The Bishop and parents conclude: Homosexuality is terrible. It destroy individuals and families. They can't step back to see their own role in the tragedy because they can't release themselves from the Church's dominion.

If everybody involved had just ignored the Church dogma, the vicious cycle could have been exited.

[SeattleUte]

Remove the church from the equation.

Remove all religion from the question.

On its own, does confession (admission of wrongdoing and asking for pardon) have any cathartic effect on the offending party? On the offended? In the foundation of long-lasting meaningful relationships? That is the question at hand, for me.

Do the costs of the asking for pardon and the relief of the truth outweigh the damage the truth can cause?

I think that's right. And it's not an easily answered question in the case of infidelity. I bet most professionals would say don't confess if it's ten years old, etc., and/or there's no reason to, such as it's over.

For confession to have any effect you have to regard the person to whom you're confessing as in some kind of a position to have been wronged by your sin or in a position to make it good for you. It think to put a clergy in that position is just plain childish. I understand there are psychic reasons why telling the person you harmed my be a relief.