Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[Tim]

but if there are more than two witnesses it is better

Damn, that's hot!

[wuapinmon]

Damn, that's hot!

I know exactly what you're thinking, tío. Ponle el candado al corazón y especialmente al pico.

[CardiacCoug]

I think Cowboy said it best in that it is his personal belief that we will all have an "Abrahamic" test. I think in many ways confession is part of that. Not just for the transgressor but also for those whom have been offended.

The idea of an Abrahamic test strikes me as an "Everything happens for a reason" line of thought of which I am not a fan.

If you cheat on your wife, there is no larger purpose at work along the lines of "God must have wanted your wife to have a chance to forgive like the Savior forgives." That's not the way I like to think about life, anyway.

Everything doesn't happen for a reason.

[SeattleUte]

That people allow religion to intrude in their lives this way is one thing that just is so unfortunate, in my view. He's been doing fine without Mormonism. This issue should be between him and his wife, exclusively, unless they decide to get help from a professional. His first mistake was telling the bishop. Now he should just ignore him.

[Surfah]

The idea of an Abrahamic test strikes me as an "Everything happens for a reason" line of thought of which I am not a fan.

If you cheat on your wife, there is no larger purpose at work along the lines of "God must have wanted your wife to have a chance to forgive like the Savior forgives." That's not the way I like to think about life, anyway.

Everything doesn't happen for a reason.

You completely misinterpreted that. I too am not a fan of everything happens for a reason like on thinking.

[CardiacCoug]

That people allow religion to intrude in their lives this way is one thing that just is so unfortunate, in my view. He's been doing fine without Mormonism. This issue should be between him and his wife, exclusively, unless they decide to get help from a professional. His first mistake was telling the bishop. Now he should just ignore him.

For some reason the guy wants to be a part of the Church. Coming back to Church activity has the potential to be a great blessing for him and his family, at least from this guy's perspective. (Or else why would he even be considering it?)

To me, it's unfortunate that this extra barrier of confession has to stand between him and his guilt-free participation in the Church. In my opinion, it is an unnecessary, man-made barrier.

What I find interesting about the orthodox position is the following: Let's say the guy still feels tremendous guilt about cheating on his wife. So he goes in to the Bishop and the Bishop says, "Hey, don't worry about it. It's been such a long time and you've been faithful since. God forgives you. You just have to forgive yourself. Whether or not you tell your wife is up to you." So then does the guy just walk out and never feel guilty about it again?

I could never accept another person's ruling on my spiritual guilt or innocence to override or really even affect what I knew in my heart, whether the ruling was positive or negative.

[Surfah]

I think the correct answer probably depends on how orthodox his friend is in his religious beliefs.

If every day for the rest of his life he wakes up and thinks, "Too bad my family and I are screwed for eternity because I never told the Bishop and my wife about this," then it's better to confess now and get it over with so he can move on feeling good about himself. In other words, if formal confession to the Bishop is going to eventually free him from paralyzing and emotionally crippling guilt, then it's a good thing.

If he doesn't really buy the stuff about the degrees of glory and the Spirit Correctional Facility or the somewhat strange LDS adoption of the Catholic tradition of the confessional (which is more my attitude, although thankfully I have never cheated on my wife) then he's probably better off keeping it to himself.

Well of course there is a question of orthodoxy here. If he believes then he should. If he doesn't then why make any sort of reconciliation with church and God?

So confession is an adoption of Catholic tradition? Were the revelations posted by Tooblue contrived by Joseph? Or is confession simply required of those who aren't able to mete out the terms of their own salvation with his God and Savior?

[CardiacCoug]

You completely misinterpreted that. I too am not a fan of everything happens for a reason like on thinking.

My bad. Sorry about that.

[CardiacCoug]

Were the revelations posted by Tooblue contrived by Joseph?

Well I think Joseph eventually told Emma that he was having sex with other women. I'm not sure if he confessed to his Bishop, though. I'll have to look into that.

[TripletDaddy]

Unlike some, I prefer to live in the present.

oh, brother.

this sounds like when robinfinderson made some generic claim that if people murdered his wife and kids, it would embolden him, not break him.


when it comes time for God to judge, I hope he also has that attitude...."hey, don't worry about it...it was 10 years ago. Let's live in the present"

[SeattleUte]

For some reason the guy wants to be a part of the Church. Coming back to Church activity has the potential to be a great blessing for him and his family, at least from this guy's perspective. (Or else why would he even be considering it?)

If he asked me for advice I'd tell him this kind of aggravation is asure sign it's not a blessing. I'd ask him why he wants to subject himself to this kind of intrusion into and control over the most intimate details of his life. I'd ask him why this bishop is a better man than he is that he can impose these kinds of demands and conditons on him. Really, why?

Or, maybe I'd tell him, you know, I know a guy, I don't know his real name, everyone just calls him Cardiac, and he's managed this neat trick where he takes the LDS church on his own terms. No there one will guilt trip him into believing he needs to tell anyone anything he doesn't want to. He doesn't care about the nonsens; just goes and partakes of what he pleases and leaves the rest of it at his pleasure. Maybe you should try that.

[RobinFinderson]

oh, brother.

this sounds like when robinfinderson made some generic claim that if people murdered his wife and kids, it would embolden him, not break him.


when it comes time for God to judge, I hope he also has that attitude...."hey, don't worry about it...it was 10 years ago. Let's live in the present"

I was arguing that torture and indiscriminately bombing people are generally not persuasive. I was reflecting on how murder and persecution only steeled the resolve of our Mormon ancestors. I guess my facts could be wrong. After all, I learned that from the official LDS manual on church history.

[CardiacCoug]

Or, maybe I'd tell him, you know, I know a guy, I don't know his real name, everyone just calls him Cardiac, and he's managed this neat trick where he takes the LDS church on his own terms. No there one will guilt trip him into believing he needs to tell anyone anything he doesn't want to. He doesn't care about the nonsens; just goes and partakes of what he pleases and leaves the rest of it at his pleasure. Maybe you should try that.

Great idea. Seriously, though, doesn't everybody pick and choose what they believe in the Church and in other aspects of life to a greater or lesser degree, though?

I recently went to an interventional cardiology conference and watched a presenter do some angioplasty/stent procedures. There were some aspects of the procedures he performed that I thought were great and I learned a few things. There were other things he did that I thought were stupid. I didn't raise a ruckus at the conference and tell him and the other cardiologists that I thought he sucked. I just made some personal notes of the roughly 50% of the stuff he did that I thought was pretty good and the roughly 50% where he kind of sucked and I'm better than him. I was still glad I went to the conference even though I disagreed with a very large portion of this guy's decisions and techniques. In fact, the stuff he did that was wrong was almost as educational as the stuff he did correctly, because it helped solidify my understanding and conviction that my approach is superior.

I do pretty much the same thing at Church.

[Babs]

this sounds like when robinfinderson made some generic claim that if people murdered his wife and kids, it would embolden him, not break him.

when it comes time for God to judge, I hope he also has that attitude...."hey, don't worry about it...it was 10 years ago. Let's live in the present"

Ah, yes, but jihadist murder is a fairly rare occurence in the States. I'd use care in making unwarranted assumptions when it comes to an epidemic as prolific as adultery. I'd wager that there are more than a few here who have faced the pain of infidelity, and I doubt they appreciate your inappropriately (though typical) lighthearted take on the matter.

[wuapinmon]

Ah, yes, but jihadist murder is a fairly rare occurence in the States. I'd use care in making unwarranted assumptions when it comes to an epidemic as prolific as adultery. I'd wager that there are more than a few here who have faced the pain of infidelity, and I doubt they appreciate your inappropriately (though typical) lighthearted take on the matter.

But didn't you do the same thing before?