Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[cowboy]

Personally, I would rather confess my sin upfront and heed the counsel of the bishop, rather than to attempt to reason out my "cleanliness" before the Lord on my own.

This is one reason that confession can be such a vital part of the repentance/healing process. Confession to a Church leader helps assure the individual that he has done all he can to merit the grace of the Savior. Without it the wounds of sin can fester in doubt, and the scars can be lasting.

[Babs]

I'm a little befuddled by the whole..."I'm protecting my wife by not telling her (cough, cough, bullshit), and if I still don't say anything then I'm still (cough, cough, bullshit) protecting her.

The truth is you're still just covering your own ass.

Rocky, don't be a jerk.

It's only true. Let's do a quick cost-benefit analysis.

What's to be gained? Anything at all? I'm drawing a blank, but perhaps there's something in the church that requires it. Some people assuage some guilt by confessing the sin, so there's that.

What's the cost? Well, your wife will weep for months. Her dignity is shot. She will never be able to look at you or make love to you again without wondering if you're thinking of the other woman. She will forever wonder what all you did together. She will forever have to chase the shadows from her mind every time you're at work too late or run to the store unannounced. And if you confess to the church leaders there's always the possibility that there's a "leak," and word makes it back to your kids.

I totally disagree with the CYA hypothesis. In some circumstances, it is very much a selfish act to confess the sin.

[CardiacCoug]

I think Cowboy's friend's scenario serves as a pretty good litmus test for how literally you believe that there will be eternal progression in the Celestial Kingdom for the righteous who have complied fully with confession guidelines to Priesthood authorities as recommended in the Church Handbook of Instructions.

If you really believe in your heart that the Bishop holds the keys to your eternal salvation and that God is responsible for the exact confession policies of the Church in the CHOI, breaking your wife's heart and hurting your relationship and family is a small price to pay for eternal exaltation and progress.

If you really don't believe in your heart that God is bound by official Church policy (What is bound on earth shall be bound in Heaven, etc.) when deciding which families to keep together and which of his children to exalt, then it makes more sense to keep your past transgression to yourself.

But if you really take this stuff that literally, why would any LDS person stay married to a non-member or inactive member? This is your eternal destiny at stake! Leave that slacker spouse behind and get an ultra-righteous partner.

Do we advise everybody to divorce their inactive spouse, though? No. We just say that God will work everything out in a perfect manner if we do our best. In the words of Goatnapper, "speaks volumes" about how literally we really believe all this speculation about what God will do with us in the next life.

[TripletDaddy]

Cardiac is wise.

For there is but one God, and but one mediator between God and man.

There are 2 issues.

One is the relationship between God and Man.

The other is the relationship between husband and wife.

For the latter, your scripture really doesn't apply. The issue is whether a cheating and deceptive partner in a marriage should admit that he cheated. Saying, "hey, don't judge me, only God can judge....".....what does that have to do with anything?

Are you suggesting that if you found out that your husband cheated on you 5 or 6 years ago, you would be mad at him not for the cheating, but for letting you know about it? You would prefer to not know and simply go through life with a false sense of trust?

Not me, thanks. I'd rather know.

[tooblue]

If you really believe in your heart that the Bishop holds the keys to your eternal salvation and that God is responsible for the exact confession policies of the Church in the CHOI, breaking your wife's heart and hurting your relationship and family is a small price to pay for eternal exaltation and progress.

If you really don't believe in your heart that God is bound by official Church policy (What is bound on earth shall be bound in Heaven, etc.)

It is not policy it is doctrine given to us by the Lord himself:

D&C 19:20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I ahumble you with my almighty power; and that you bconfess your sins, lest you suffer these cpunishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have dtasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

D&C 58:43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will aconfess them and bforsake them.

Marion D. Hanks stated: "Those sins which injure others we are to confess to those whom we have hurt, and seek forgiveness and reconciliation:"

D&C 42:88 And if thy abrother or sister boffend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she cconfess thou shalt be dreconciled.

"Sins that by their nature put in jeopardy our membership or good standing in the Church must also be confessed to the Lord’s agent, the bishop or other appropriate Church officer. The bishop as common judge has stewardship of the flock and its members. He is responsible for safeguarding the “body of the Church” and its various members in his appointed jurisdiction, even to the point of “cutting off the right hand” or “plucking out the right eye” if it offends."

[Babs]

There are 2 issues.

One is the relationship between God and Man.

The other is the relationship between husband and wife.

For the latter, your scripture really doesn't apply.

of course it doesn't. That was a reference to some form of church confessional.

Are you suggesting that if you found out that your husband cheated on you 5 or 6 years ago, you would be mad at him not for the cheating, but for letting you know about it? You would prefer to not know and simply go through life with a false sense of trust?

If it were a one-time-only thing that happened the first year of our marriage (when, frankly, in our case we were miserable) ten years ago...

Then I'd rather he keep it to himself. I'd rather preserve the freedom and intimacy that results from the bond and trust I have with him and in him. If he were to divulge a long-past indiscretion -- a failing from which he has clearly repented and which is not affecting our current marriage -- my faith in him and in myself would be shattered, and the revelation wouldn't be worth it to me. I would never truly, wholly be able to commune with him again. No thanks.

[wuapinmon]

D&C 42:80 And if any man or woman shall commit adultery, he or she shall be tried before two elders of the church, or more, and every word shall be established against him or her by two witnesses of the church, and not of the enemy; but if there are more than two witnesses it is better.

That's all I can find in the scriptures about what to do, but I didn't do a thorough search.

[tooblue]

of course it doesn't. That was a reference to some form of church confessional.



If it were a one-time-only thing that happened the first year of our marriage (when, frankly, in our case we were miserable) ten years ago...

Then I'd rather he keep it to himself. I'd rather preserve the freedom and intimacy that results from the bond and trust I have with him and in him. If he were to divulge a long-past indiscretion -- a failing from which he has clearly repented and which is not affecting our current marriage -- my faith in him and in myself would be shattered, and the revelation wouldn't be worth it to me. I would never truly, wholly be able to commune with him again. No thanks.

Honestly, I cannot imagine a worse situation to be in and I am certain my feelings would be similar to yours in that "I would never truly, wholly be able to commune with [her] again."

That being said it is our doctrine to confess our sins to those we have injured. It is also our doctrine to forgive the confessor: "Ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin. I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men" (D&C 64:9–10).

Perhaps none of here are giving the wife enough credit. Simply because we may not be able to forgive does not mean that she is not capable of the forgiveness required. Who are we to judge for her?

[Babs]

Perhaps none of here are giving the wife enough credit. Simply because we may not be able to forgive does not mean that she is not capable of the forgiveness required. Who are we to judge for her?

That's awfully simplistic, don't you think? I may have long-ago forgiven the kid in the sixth grade who tripped me in the hallway, sending me careening into the metal lockers and leaving a gash over my left eye. I may have forgiven him, yet the scar is still there, interfering with the line of my otherwise perfectly arched brow. And when the climate is just right, it even still hurts a little.

So sure, there are women strong enough to forgive, but that's not to say the marriage won't be permanently altered.

But your comment hints at something I was thinking: this is really the kind of decision that has to be made on a case-by-case basis. Church dictum aside, there is probably no one right answer. The husband of a terribly insecure wife is probably not going to want to exacerbate her insecurities by telling her of an age-old indiscretion. The husband of a wife who values honesty above all, whose affair may be revealed through mutual acquaintances, he might want to confess.

[TripletDaddy]

of course it doesn't. That was a reference to some form of church confessional.



If it were a one-time-only thing that happened the first year of our marriage (when, frankly, in our case we were miserable) ten years ago...

Then I'd rather he keep it to himself. I'd rather preserve the freedom and intimacy that results from the bond and trust I have with him and in him. If he were to divulge a long-past indiscretion -- a failing from which he has clearly repented and which is not affecting our current marriage -- my faith in him and in myself would be shattered, and the revelation wouldn't be worth it to me. I would never truly, wholly be able to commune with him again. No thanks.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you are saying that you would prefer to live in a false reality than to face the cold hard truth....because the truth would be too difficult?

To each his or her own, but that doesn't sound good to me. Not in my marriage.

However, if the majority of women feel this way, no wonder so many men cheat. Why not? Just don't get caught and let enough time pass. You are golden.

[Surfah]

That's awfully simplistic, don't you think? I may have long-ago forgiven the kid in the sixth grade who tripped me in the hallway, sending me careening into the metal lockers and leaving a gash over my left eye. I may have forgiven him, yet the scar is still there, interfering with the line of my otherwise perfectly arched brow. And when the climate is just right, it even still hurts a little.

So sure, there are women strong enough to forgive, but that's not to say the marriage won't be permanently altered.

But your comment hints at something I was thinking: this is really the kind of decision that has to be made on a case-by-case basis. Church dictum aside, there is probably no one right answer. The husband of a terribly insecure wife is probably not going to want to exacerbate her insecurities by telling her of an age-old indiscretion. The husband of a wife who values honesty above all, whose affair may be revealed through mutual acquaintances, he might want to confess.

I think Cowboy said it best in that it is his personal belief that we will all have an "Abrahamic" test. I think in many ways confession is part of that. Not just for the transgressor but also for those whom have been offended. I am pulling a 180 here from my initial reaction to CardiacCoug's thoughts on the matter:

Without confession there is no forgiveness. And I am not talking about from God. If we withhold our trespasses we don't give others a chance to forgive. While we may save them heartache, we rob them of the opportunity to be as our Savior is. And I believe above all things in this mortal existence that we are supposed to learn how to forgive and love one another. Gidget will probably throw up in her mouth after reading this because I absolutely suck at this. But I believe this to be true. And I am working daily at being better.

Having had some time to think about this for a few hours and having just taught a temple prep class, I think that Cowboy's friend should meet with his current Bishop. He should explain what happened and all that has happened since the indiscretion. He should explain his meeting with his former Bishop and share the counsel he rejected. He should then explain the feelings of why he didn't heed that counsel. Then he should do whatever his current Bishop asks of him to return and be in good standing.

[Babs]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you are saying that you would prefer to live in a false reality than to face the cold hard truth....because the truth would be too difficult?

Unlike some, I prefer to live in the present.

[wuapinmon]

Having had some time to think about this for a few hours and having just taught a temple prep class, I think that Cowboy's friend should meet with his current Bishop. He should explain what happened and all that has happened since the indiscretion. He should explain his meeting with his former Bishop and share the counsel he rejected. He should then explain the feelings of why he didn't heed that counsel. Then he should do whatever his current Bishop asks of him to return and be in good standing.

I agree.

[wuapinmon]

I'm too busy with mid-term grades to really deal with this right now, but I'm wondering if there are any lessons from the prodigal son lesson we can apply?

[CardiacCoug]

Having had some time to think about this for a few hours and having just taught a temple prep class, I think that Cowboy's friend should meet with his current Bishop. He should explain what happened and all that has happened since the indiscretion. He should explain his meeting with his former Bishop and share the counsel he rejected. He should then explain the feelings of why he didn't heed that counsel. Then he should do whatever his current Bishop asks of him to return and be in good standing.

I think the correct answer probably depends on how orthodox his friend is in his religious beliefs.

If every day for the rest of his life he wakes up and thinks, "Too bad my family and I are screwed for eternity because I never told the Bishop and my wife about this," then it's better to confess now and get it over with so he can move on feeling good about himself. In other words, if formal confession to the Bishop is going to eventually free him from paralyzing and emotionally crippling guilt, then it's a good thing.

If he doesn't really buy the stuff about the degrees of glory and the Spirit Correctional Facility or the somewhat strange LDS adoption of the Catholic tradition of the confessional (which is more my attitude, although thankfully I have never cheated on my wife) then he's probably better off keeping it to himself.