Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[RobinFinderson]

I disagree. If we believe in repentance, then all sins are forgotten once the repentance process is complete. Therefore, if he has repented, then he is clean before both God and his wife. There was no eternal marriage at the time, so no eternal contract was breached. If they choose to be sealed in the future, it he will have repented and changed.

I have been abstracting the specifics to apply to cheating and confession in general. I don't think that it is useful to make a distinction between a temple marriage and a temporal marriage. I have only done so to underscore that the breach of contract is significant, and that a partner should know if s/he is party to a sham contract so that s/he can make the choice to either renegotiate the terms of that contract or look for an honest partner. But whether eternal or not, there is no difference. The wronged partner should be able to make an informed choice.

[Surfah]

Of course he needs to make it right, cowboy's question was how you would go about doing so.

I still maintain there's more than one correct way (dependent on circumstances) for someone in this situation to achieve redemption, and I certainly don't dispute that for some of you that would be full disclosure to a bishop and wife.

If you're an orthodox Mormon as CardiacCoug says, what other ways are correct other than confessing to your Bishop and heeding his counsel?

[FN Phat]

Crap! That makes three of us on the island... awkward!

You can be the skier in the middle

[RobinFinderson]

What if the friend's first Bishop was a "good" Bishop and knew he and his wife well? So well in fact that he knew that the wife would never recover from such a confession and being led by the Spirit, determined through personal revelation that he should not confess to the wife. What then? Do you still believe that the friend should tell his wife, in effect rejecting his Bishop's counsel?

Cheating on a spouse is a sin with with eternal repercussions, per Mormon dogma. In your scenario the Bishop receives revelation that seems to contradict the most simple and straightforward interpretation of 'honoring one's covenants.' The individual would then have to choose a world paradigm: Either the universe is governed by laws that people can know and understand, or the universe operates on God's caprice.

[beelzebabette]

I think it is pretty cut and dry. The man made a bad mistake and he needs to make it right.

"Jacob taught that the Lord delights 'in the chastity of women' (Jacob 2:28). I delight in the chastity and purity of all women and men. How it must grieve the Lord to see virtue violated and modesty mocked on every side in this wicked world. The Lord has provided for His children great joy through intimate, loving relationships, as my grandchildren were learning. I delight in the clarity of the proclamation to the world on the family which warns that 'individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God.' "

That is if you believe these things to be right.

Of course he needs to make it right, cowboy's question was how you would go about doing so.

I still maintain there's more than one correct way (dependent on circumstances) for someone in this situation to achieve redemption, and I certainly don't dispute that for some of you that would be full disclosure to a bishop and wife.

[cowboy]

I don't understand how any truly believing Mormon can advocate anything different than DDD has prescribed. We are talking about the willful breach of a contract that has ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES. The wronged partner needs this information to make an informed choice about how s/he will spend the eternities.

I disagree. If we believe in repentance, then all sins are forgotten once the repentance process is complete. Therefore, if he has repented, then he is clean before both God and his wife. There was no eternal marriage at the time, so no eternal contract was breached. If they choose to be sealed in the future, it he will have repented and changed.

I am not sure cowbow was necessarily looking for "cowboy, nobody really knows what should be done."

I certainly was looking for discussion. Philosophical and ethical dilemmas intrigue me.

I think though that the question becomes a matter of whether confession to the wife is truly necessary for repentance. The answer, to quote my favorite finance professor, is "it depends." Circumstances and individuals all play into the answer.

Confession to a priesthood leader isn't for the Catholic purpose of absolution, as only God can provide that. And, with the repentant, it is certainly not designed to punish the sinner. Rather, it is designed to help the transgressor understand and take advantage of the gift of the atonement. This is why it is only necessary for egregious sins like adultery.

In this case, confessing to the wife at the time may have saved him 10 years of guilt and hellish torment, but a bishop may not think that it is necessary now.

These are rambling thoughts hastily arranged, but they are my thoughts so far.

[Surfah]

I don't understand how any truly believing Mormon can advocate anything different than DDD has prescribed. We are talking about the willful breach of a contract that has ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES. The wronged partner needs this information to make an informed choice about how s/he will spend the eternities.

What if the friend's first Bishop was a "good" Bishop and knew he and his wife well? So well in fact that he knew that the wife would never recover from such a confession and being led by the Spirit, determined through personal revelation that he should not confess to the wife. What then? Do you still believe that the friend should tell his wife, in effect rejecting his Bishop's counsel?

[RobinFinderson]

I think it is pretty cut and dry. The man made a bad mistake and he needs to make it right.

"Jacob taught that the Lord delights 'in the chastity of women' (Jacob 2:28). I delight in the chastity and purity of all women and men. How it must grieve the Lord to see virtue violated and modesty mocked on every side in this wicked world. The Lord has provided for His children great joy through intimate, loving relationships, as my grandchildren were learning. I delight in the clarity of the proclamation to the world on the family which warns that 'individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God.' "

That is if you believe these things to be right.

Crap! That makes three of us on the island... awkward!

[FN Phat]

I think it is pretty cut and dry. The man made a bad mistake and he needs to make it right.

"Jacob taught that the Lord delights 'in the chastity of women' (Jacob 2:28). I delight in the chastity and purity of all women and men. How it must grieve the Lord to see virtue violated and modesty mocked on every side in this wicked world. The Lord has provided for His children great joy through intimate, loving relationships, as my grandchildren were learning. I delight in the clarity of the proclamation to the world on the family which warns that 'individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God.' "

That is if you believe these things to be right.

[CardiacCoug]

You know, this is such an intensely personal decision, on so many levels, fraught with implications for both spouses and children in this life and for eternity, if so disposed, that I fail to see how any of us can deign to prescribe the course of action that 'should' be followed.

The older I get the more I realize life just isn't that simple. I don't know what he should do, nor do I know what I would necessarily do. This is why we try to learn correct principles and think them through ahead of time. For this purpose, this discussion has been a good one. For purposes of figuring out what this particular guy shoud do, however, it is impossioble to know without being him. We only get one chance and we all have to stay in the same skin throughout; be wise, be prudent, try not to hurt others, follow what you believe, and do what you think is right.

Way too much humility and common sense there, buddy.

[TripletDaddy]

I agree. 3D, take note.

I also agree. SU take note.

You were lucky creekster bailed you out. You left yourself wide open on a few very huge issues in this thread and no-so-subtly ducked them. No worries, amigo. Detente.

[TripletDaddy]

You know, this is such an intensely personal decision, on so many levels, fraught with implications for both spouses and children in this life and for eternity, if so disposed, that I fail to see how any of us can deign to prescribe the course of action that 'should' be followed.

The older I get the more I realize life just isn't that simple. I don't know what he should do, nor do I know what I would necessarily do. This is why we try to learn correct principles and think them through ahead of time. For this purpose, this discussion has been a good one. For purposes of figuring out what this particular guy shoud do, however, it is impossioble to know without being him. We only get one chance and we all have to stay in the same skin throughout; be wise, be prudent, try not to hurt others, follow what you believe, and do what you think is right.

I think people are sharing opinions because that is the purpose of the thread. I am not sure cowbow was necessarily looking for "cowboy, nobody really knows what should be done." Although he may have. In which case, you are correct. Ultimately, it is up to the individual.

[RobinFinderson]

You know, this is such an intensely personal decision, on so many levels, fraught with implications for both spouses and children in this life and for eternity, if so disposed, that I fail to see how any of us can deign to prescribe the course of action that 'should' be followed.

The older I get the more I realize life just isn't that simple. I don't know what he should do, nor do I know what I would necessarily do. This is why we try to learn correct principles and think them through ahead of time. For this purpose, this discussion has been a good one. For purposes of figuring out what this particular guy shoud do, however, it is impossioble to know without being him. We only get one chance and we all have to stay in the same skin throughout; be wise, be prudent, try not to hurt others, follow what you believe, and do what you think is right.

I don't understand how any truly believing Mormon can advocate anything different than DDD has prescribed. We are talking about the willful breach of a contract that has ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES. The wronged partner needs this information to make an informed choice about how s/he will spend the eternities.

[SeattleUte]

You know, this is such an intensely personal decision, on so many levels, fraught with implications for both spouses and children in this life and for eternity, if so disposed, that I fail to see how any of us can deign to prescribe the course of action that 'should' be followed.

The older I get the more I realize life just isn't that simple. I don't know what he should do, nor do I know what I would necessarily do. This is why we try to learn correct principles and think them through ahead of time. For this purpose, this discussion has been a good one. For purposes of figuring out what this particular guy shoud do, however, it is impossioble to know without being him. We only get one chance and we all have to stay in the same skin throughout; be wise, be prudent, try not to hurt others, follow what you believe, and do what you think is right.

I agree. 3D, take note.

[TripletDaddy]

I am sure there are. In my **limited** experience, I would say that most experts would advocate not confessing old affairs.

Of course, Babs and I could be wrong with our perception of the expert opinions. And of course, the experts could be wrong. But there you go.

ok, a far different tone that what Babes laid out, which was basically to play the wuapinmon, "I have a PhD" card (substituting PhD for "I have read some research").

Ultimately, though, the point is moot. I have never said that maintaining the illusion would be convenient. I readily agree that it would be much more inconvenient.

Do these same experts that advocate not confessing old affairs...do they also state that by keeping it concealed, the spouse is being honest and acting with integrity? that is the core issue I am discussing here. I am not disputing that keeping the secret will avoid unpleasantries.