Female Deacons?

[Solon]

I haven't said a word about modern LDS understandings of priesthood hierarchy.

Exactly. That's why I was surprised you thought I was insinuating that you were a disingenuous LDS hack. Seemed like a non-sequitur to me.

I was responding to the earlier posts about the word having different meanings for men than for women.

[Surfah]

Exactly. That's why I was surprised you thought I was insinuating that you were a disingenuous LDS hack. Seemed like a non-sequitur to me.

I was responding to the earlier posts about the word having different meanings for men than for women.

I never said that either.

[Moliere]

But deciding that deacon (or the Latin "minister") probably just means "servant" when referring to women isn't just misogynistic, it betrays an unhealthy literalism when looking at NT texts. Should we claim that "bishops" are really "lookouts" when it's convenient? ("bishop" comes from epi+skopos, which means one-who-watches-over)

I agree with Solon (not that he or AA needs my agreement), but I specifically with this paragraph. You could easily make the same argument for bishops and apostles (Paul is a great example) when it's convenient, similar to cherry-picking certain verses while ignoring others or ignoring the whole body of evidence.

As AA and Solon both pointed out, there is no 100% certainty on the issue of women in leadership positions in the early church. However, there is sure traces that allude to this fact and there is evidence of those traces being "scrubbed out" which just serves to fortify the small traces that are left.

[All-American]

Exactly. That's why I was surprised you thought I was insinuating that you were a disingenuous LDS hack. Seemed like a non-sequitur to me.

I was responding to the earlier posts about the word having different meanings for men than for women.

I don't think it's that ambiguous at all. A deacon/deaconess was a specific office in the early Christian church. To dismiss it as an adjectival "servant' is disingenuous

This is where the debate needs to go, not into silly semantic ones that assert present LDS understandings of male priesthood hierarchy and authority.

This was in response to my post. If it wasn't referring to what I said, then my apologies; I misunderstood. I'm not sure, though, that anybody here has tried to "assert present LDS understandings of male priesthood hierarchy and authority."

[Surfah]

This was in response to my post. If it wasn't referring to what I said, then my apologies; I misunderstood. I'm not sure, though, that anybody here has tried to "assert present LDS understandings of male priesthood hierarchy and authority."

I read Eddie Jones original post as that. I was trying to refute that or better, point out the ambiguity that exists. If I misunderstood, then I too apologize.

[Moliere]

This was in response to my post. If it wasn't referring to what I said, then my apologies; I misunderstood. I'm not sure, though, that anybody here has tried to "assert present LDS understandings of male priesthood hierarchy and authority."

No one has "asserted" it, but it runs through my veins just like almost everyone else on this board. I struggle to not let LDS theology, as it was taught to me, influence my study of the NT. As noted in another thread, I'm reading through the NT for the first time in a translation other than the KJV. It's exciting, alarming, and somewhat dissonant for me.

When I read through this section of Romans it felt unfamiliar as I know I've never read of a female deacon before. So I compared it to the KJV and then read a bit on the interwebs about the passage. It got me to thinking about other potential female leaders, which led me to Junia which is a fascinating story of how she became Junias.

I appreciate both the responses from AA and Solon (and to a lesser extent Surfah....j/k) as they help me flesh this out in my mind. I understand she may have just been a servant, or she could have held the PH, or she could have been a deaconness which might be totally different than a deacon. Lots of possibilities, which leads to lots of speculation and lots of interpretations.

[Solon]

This was in response to my post. If it wasn't referring to what I said, then my apologies; I misunderstood. I'm not sure, though, that anybody here has tried to "assert present LDS understandings of male priesthood hierarchy and authority."

What I wrote about "semantics" wasn't meant to refer to your cogent analysis of the Greek. It was about the implication of a different definition for men than for women. Sorry for any hard feelings (to anyone else too).

[Jeff Lebowski]

[Jarid in Cedar]

yeah, greek-geek fight :box:

[RC Vikings]

I started feeling stupid reading this thread so I went back to the Bike shop.

[TripletDaddy]

yeah, greek-geek fight :box:

As most geek fights go, this one followed the same course. Both guys chicken out once a crowd of students assemble around them.

Anal Miracle offers an apology citing the possibility that he may have misunderstood. Solon tries to assuage Anal Miracle's feelings by describing his Greek analysis as "cogent."

Both of these guys are probably half way to the computer lab, breathing sighs of relief that it didn't get physical and excited to boot up the Apple // and play some Zork III until their mom picks them up.

[Solon]

As most geek fights go, this one followed the same course. Both guys chicken out once a crowd of students assemble around them.

Anal Miracle offers an apology citing the possibility that he may have misunderstood. Solon tries to assuage Anal Miracle's feelings by describing his Greek analysis as "cogent."

Both of these guys are probably half way to the computer lab, breathing sighs of relief that it didn't get physical and excited to boot up the Apple // and play some Zork III until their mom picks them up.

:finger3: