For the Strength of the Youth - 1965

[creekster]

As one of the few people here who was alive in 1965 (although quite young) I would like to point out that those standards were not that unusual then. They lagged america a bit, but just watch Joe Friday on Dragnet from that era (and really a little after) and you'll see the same sort of stuff.

[Jacob]

That pamphlet was awesome. I really love some of the changes in direction. The whole dating age and what type of dating is appropriate thing has subtly changed. I think the current FSY pamphlet says no dating until 16 and then only group dating. This says only group dating before 16 then single dating. I wonder if this shift is part of the cause of the increasing group of young adults that are not married and the lack of dating in those circles mentioned in recent conferences.

I recently had an argument with my mother regarding dating age. I told her I thought it was foolish to strictly adhere to those arbitrary ages and rules, even though i consider them not terrible guidelines. And that I wouldn't strictly enforce those rules on my boys when they are of age. She thinks we ought to be strict about it because it comes from the prophet. She can be very fundamentalist, especially when arguing with me any my heresies.

She wouldn't even back down from her stand when I reminded her that she wasn't so strict with me when I was a teenager. My parents were reasonable and allowed me to take as a sophomore in high school despite the tender age of 15 and that I went on single dates all the time. And the FTSOTY guidelines have no changed in this regard in the past 15 years.

She really is a pretty reasonable person.

In defense of LDS dances. Our stake dances were great. Good times, good music (sometimes) and no strict dress or dance guidelines. The "book of mormon rule" was blatantly mocked by slow-dancing so closely as to support a book of mormon between our bodies. Non members from my HS would even attend the dances and it wasn't Utah. However, the neighboring stake adhered to the Sunday dress rules and as a result, nobody went to their dances. Then again, we were just plain cooler than they. And better dancers.

[LA Ute]

How many of you guys who find such mirth in these pamphlets actually have, or have had, teen-aged kids? I'm kinda curious. I thought they were silly too until I had teen-agers.

[creekster]

How many of you guys who find such mirth in these pamphlets actually have, or have had, teen-aged kids? I'm kinda curious. I thought they were silly too until I had teen-agers.

Agreed. Esp my daughter. Yikes.

[KillerDog]

How many of you guys who find such mirth in these pamphlets actually have, or have had, teen-aged kids? I'm kinda curious. I thought they were silly too until I had teen-agers.

Did you like the rules because they gave you an authority to appeal to and defer to when confronted with a rebellious teenager or was it because you wanted guidlines you could personally enforce and didn't know where to begin or was it something else?

[LA Ute]

Did you like the rules because they gave you an authority to appeal to and defer to when confronted with a rebellious teenager or was it because you wanted guidlines you could personally enforce and didn't know where to begin or was it something else?

Good questions. A combination of all of those, except for the appeal to authority. That rarely works. Mainly the guidelines gave us a basis for discussion. Why this rule? Do you think it makes sense? Etc. We have made exceptions but the "why" of any rule has always been discussed. Not always with happiness or agreement, but ....

My main point is that with kids generally, and teen-agers specifically, one's perspective changes. (Kind of like our attitudes about taxes before and after we start paying a lot of them.) Seriously, there's a lot to worry about with kids of that age who are making huge life decisions. We look for help wherever we can find it.

[PaloAltoCougar]

The pamphlet provided me with a real nostalgia trip. I was a deacon when it came out, and while I don't remember the specific publication, it's certainly consistent with everything we were taught. That was a curious time, in that SLC was still in the Eisenhower years, but the Bay Area was moving rapidly toward the Summer of Love. Because of the rapidly changing social mores, the 60's had probably the greatest gaps in social awareness between leaders and youth in the Church.

With no non-member friends through high school, I fancied myself as too cool for much of the directives from on high. As LAU observed, however, the pamphlet actually looks better to me now than it did then. But it would have been nice if they had included some artwork featuring kids from places other than Norway.

[Pheidippides]

Good questions. A combination of all of those, except for the appeal to authority. That rarely works. Mainly the guidelines gave us a basis for discussion. Why this rule? Do you think it makes sense? Etc. We have made exceptions but the "why" of any rule has always been discussed. Not always with happiness or agreement, but ....

I don't need a church-produced pamphlet to do any of that. And if I do I have larger issues than disagreeing with the contents of FTSOTY.

I had two parents that were rigid and unmovable in such issues and continually made appeals to prophetic authority. I hate them for it. They hate themselves for it. Many of the problems we had - and still have - in my family were/are the result of my parents letting SLC do their thinking for them. I'll not repeat their mistake, and you'll forgive me if I view the entire appeal to authority of prophets with a very skeptical eye right now.

[Moliere]

I recently had an argument with my mother regarding dating age. I told her I thought it was foolish to strictly adhere to those arbitrary ages and rules, even though i consider them not terrible guidelines. And that I wouldn't strictly enforce those rules on my boys when they are of age. She thinks we ought to be strict about it because it comes from the prophet. She can be very fundamentalist, especially when arguing with me any my heresies.

I agree that someone is foolish to strictly adhere to the rules, but I think most would be wise to follow the counsel. As someone who works with the young men having a set of standards is a very good thing, not just to appeal to authority but to give them guiding principles to follow in their lives.

The dating age is one bit of counsel that I will adhere to as a parent, especially with my daughters. There is rarely a need for someone younger than 16 to have a boyfriend or to go out on dates alone with a boy. In my experience, those who waited to date until they were more mentally and emotionally mature were much better off. And by much better off, the I mean to say that the girls were more head strong, independent, and for the most part more inclined to attend college.

[creekster]

I agree that someone is foolish to strictly adhere to the rules, but I think most would be wise to follow the counsel. As someone who works with the young men having a set of standards is a very good thing, not just to appeal to authority but to give them guiding principles to follow in their lives.

The dating age is one bit of counsel that I will adhere to as a parent, especially with my daughters. There is rarely a need for someone younger than 16 to have a boyfriend or to go out on dates alone with a boy. In my experience, those who waited to date until they were more mentally and emotionally mature were much better off. And by much better off, the I mean to say that the girls were more head strong, independent, and for the most part more inclined to attend college.

I agree with this. I believe it took some pressure off my kids, especialyl my daughter, ot know they would not be allowed to date. They could easily say no and felt no pressure to go into a situation thye might not like.

The only authority I appealed to, btw, was mine.

[LA Ute]

I don't need a church-produced pamphlet to do any of that. And if I do I have larger issues than disagreeing with the contents of FTSOTY.

I had two parents that were rigid and unmovable in such issues and continually made appeals to prophetic authority. I hate them for it. They hate themselves for it. Many of the problems we had - and still have - in my family were/are the result of my parents letting SLC do their thinking for them. I'll not repeat their mistake, and you'll forgive me if I view the entire appeal to authority of prophets with a very skeptical eye right now.

I think we failed to communicate. I don't think appeals to authority work in this context. (You guys have got to give me more credit! ) All parents can really do is teach their kids sound (correct) principles. In the end kids will make their own choices.

[Uncle Ted]

I recently had an argument with my mother regarding dating age. I told her I thought it was foolish to strictly adhere to those arbitrary ages and rules, even though i consider them not terrible guidelines.

Yeah, I tell my kids when they bring up dating age that while the guideline of not dating until they are 16 is good but my guideline of not dating until they are 28 is even better. Therefore, they should be happy that their mother follows the prophet's guidelines and not mine.

[FMCoug]

I have a 15 year old daughter who is pretty darn fundamental. I should trap her with this. Get her to say FTSOY is doctrine and never changes, then tell her we're implementing this one in our family.

[Mrs. Funk]

As with all things, it's about knowing your children and recognizing that the FTSOY lays out guidelines. They might not work perfectly in every circumstance. Being really fundamental about something like the FTSOY can be a one-way ticket to Camp Rebellion with some teenagers. Some teenagers are already so racked with guilt and self-loathing that giving them a checklist of all the ways they need to be perfect is exactly the last thing they need.

[wuapinmon]

What DO the lyrics of Louie, Louie mean?

I'm ashamed to say this is a sincere question.

It's a Jamaican sailor's love song amid worry about the dangers of a sea-faring life.