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  • I have posted about this before, so forgive me for doing it again. During college and law school I struggled mightily with some aspects of Church membership and culture. (Don't be too shocked to read that.) I wasn't much of an Ensign reader then but was the EQ instructor in my student ward, and somehow - I don't recall how - came across On Dealing With Uncertainty, a talk by Bruce Hafen, then President of Ricks. It was BYU devotional, and if you knew more about what I was like at that time in my life and how I felt about BYU, you'd understand how remarkable it is that I would pay attention to such a talk.

    Oddly enough, that talk changed my life. It helped me make sense of the occasional excesses and weirdnesses of Mormondom. To this day I use it to remind myself how to deal with others and it has been a resource for many a priesthood and Sunday School lesson. I commend the entire talk, but here's a taste of the core message:

    The English writer G. K. Chesterton once addressed questions similar to those I have raised today. He distinguished among “optimists,” “pessimists,” and “improvers,” which roughly correspond to my three levels of dealing with ambiguity. He concluded that both the optimists and the pessimists looked too much at only one side of things. He observed that neither the extreme optimist nor the extreme pessimist would ever be of much help in improving the human condition, because people can’t solve problems unless they are willing to acknowledge that a problem exists and yet also retain enough genuine loyalty to do something about it. More specifically, Chesterton wrote that the evil of the excessive optimist (level one) is that he will “defend the indefensible. He is the jingo of the universe; he will say, ‘My cosmos, right or wrong.’ He will be less inclined to the reform of things; more inclined to a sort of front-bench official answer to all attacks, soothing everyone with assurances. He will not wash the world, but whitewash the world.”

    On the other hand, the evil of the pessimist (level two), wrote Chesterton, is “not that he chastises gods and men, but that he does not love what he chastises.” In being the so-called “candid friend,” the pessimist is not really candid. Chesterton continued: “He is keeping something back—his own gloomy pleasure in saying unpleasant things. He has a secret desire to hurt, not merely to help. … He is using the ugly knowledge which was allowed him [in order] to strengthen the army, to discourage people from joining it.” (Gilbert K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, Garden City, N.Y.: Image Book, 1959, pp. 69–70).

    In going on to describe the “improvers,” or level three, Chesterton illustrates by referring to women, who tend to be so loyal to those who need them. “Some stupid people started the idea that because women obviously back up their own people through everything, therefore women are blind and do not see anything. They can hardly have known any women. The same women who are ready to defend their men through thick and thin … are almost morbidly lucid about the thinness of his excuses or the thickness of his head. … Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.” (Chesterton, Orthodoxy, p. 71.) [Emphasis LA Ute's.]

    Perhaps President Harold B. Lee was thinking of Chesterton’s point about women when he used to say, “Behind every great man, there is an amazed woman.”

    Chesterton’s arranging of these categories makes me think of one other way to compare the differing levels of perspective that people bring to the way they cope with ambiguity. Consider the metaphorical image of “lead, kindly light.” At level one, people either do not or cannot see that there are both a kindly light and an encircling gloom, or that if there are both, that there is no real difference between the two. At level two, the difference is acutely apparent, but one’s acceptance of the ambiguity may be so wholeheartedly pessimistic as to say, “Remember that the hour is darkest just before everything goes completely black.”

    How different are these responses from that calm but honest prayer at level three,

    “Lead, kindly Light, amid th’encircling gloom;
    lead thou me on. …
    I do not ask to see
    the distant scene—one step enough for me.”

    (Hymns, no. 112.)

    All I ask, then, is that we may be honest enough and courageous enough to face whatever uncertainties we may encounter, try to understand them, and then do something about them. Perhaps then we will not be living on borrowed light. “Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.” In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
    Anyway, I love those ideas and they have helped me. Maybe they'll help some here as well.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 12-16-2010, 08:30 AM.
    “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
    ― W.H. Auden


    "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
    -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
      .

      Now let's say a prayer and drink to world peace!
      I got it, DDD.

      "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
      The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post
        If you provide evidence, I'll revise my view. I haven't pointed out talks that I've found incoherent out of appreciation for the difficulty of doing something like giving an address to the entire Church. That doesn't mean, though, that I haven't noticed a drop in thoughtfulness and coherence. And I am someone who has read more than his share of GC talks.
        I've read a few GC talks in my time too, SIEQ. That doesn't make what you've said any less a poorly argued generalization.

        Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post
        If you'll re-read my post, I'll think you'll find that while I am critical, I am also empathetic. It isn't easy to be a member of the Church, and that includes leaders. Heck, it even includes people like me and you.
        I don't sense any empathy there, sorry. What you call empathy is just misery asking for company.

        Less talk, more service. That's the recipe to happiness in the church. Navel-gazing about the burden of obedience (CUF term: "conformance") is rarely productive.
        Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?

        - Cali Coug

        I always wanted to wear a tiara.
        We need to be careful going back to the bible for guidance.

        - Jeff Lebowski

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tex View Post
          What you call empathy is just misery asking for company.
          LOL
          Everything in life is an approximation.

          http://twitter.com/CougarStats

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tex View Post
            I've read a few GC talks in my time too, SIEQ. That doesn't make what you've said any less a poorly argued generalization.



            I don't sense any empathy there, sorry. What you call empathy is just misery asking for company.

            Less talk, more service. That's the recipe to happiness in the church. Navel-gazing about the burden of obedience (CUF term: "conformance") is rarely productive.
            I don't doubt that you don't see empathy. Finding a trite saying like "misery asking for company" is just you being negative.

            I didn't say that my position was well argued. I literally said I was thinking out loud. I've encouraged you to provide me with evidence to rethink my position, but so far you haven't.

            I'm actually a happy fellow and my Church service is not lacking. Your assertions about happiness are amusing, and I can't but wonder if they are working for you. You, of all people, giving lectures about happiness, is awesome. You don't exactly seem like a candidate for the new Church ad campaign in that department.

            It's great to have you back, Tex.
            We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tex View Post
              I've Less talk, more service. That's the recipe to happiness in the church.
              Less talk more service? That's catchy. I recommend you begin canceling meetings or refusing to attend meetings in your local unit and use that phrase as the defense. I'm sure that will make you happier in the church.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post
                I don't doubt that you don't see empathy. Finding a trite saying like "misery asking for company" is just you being negative.

                I didn't say that my position was well argued. I literally said I was thinking out loud. I've encouraged you to provide me with evidence to rethink my position, but so far you haven't.

                I'm actually a happy fellow and my Church service is not lacking. Your assertions about happiness are amusing, and I can't but wonder if they are working for you. You, of all people, giving lectures about happiness, is awesome. You don't exactly seem like a candidate for the new Church ad campaign in that department.

                It's great to have you back, Tex.
                Well I guess I was just thinking out loud too. Hope you enjoyed it, Cranky.

                Originally posted by KillerDog View Post
                Less talk more service? That's catchy. I recommend you begin canceling meetings or refusing to attend meetings in your local unit and use that phrase as the defense. I'm sure that will make you happier in the church.
                No need to get carried away, but there are more than a few meetings I'd be happy to cancel were it in my power. Of course, we're assuming the members would use that extra time to actually do service, rather than catching a little more Sunday football. I'm not sure the raging Mormon simpleton is up to the challenge.
                Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?

                - Cali Coug

                I always wanted to wear a tiara.
                We need to be careful going back to the bible for guidance.

                - Jeff Lebowski

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tex View Post
                  Of course, we're assuming the members would use that extra time to actually do service, rather than catching a little more Sunday football. I'm not sure the raging Mormon simpleton is up to the challenge.
                  As a raging Mormon simpleton, I'd be up to the challenge, I think. Having attended many thousands of Church meetings, many great or good, and certainly many less so, I wouldn't dismiss the the advantages of watching a game with my kids versus certain presidency or staff meetings.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                    I don't recall how - came across On Dealing With Uncertainty, a talk by Bruce Hafen, then President of Ricks. It was BYU devotional, and if you knew more about what I was like at that time in my life and how I felt about BYU, you'd understand how remarkable it is that I would pay attention to such a talk.
                    I also came across that talk during law school. It was suggested by Hafen's son, who was giving an introduction to his father's key-note speech at a BYU Founder's Day Dinner. I took note and looked it up later.
                    Unfortunately, I didn't find it as helpful or inspiring as you did.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                      I also came across that talk during law school. It was suggested by Hafen's son, who was giving an introduction to his father's key-note speech at a BYU Founder's Day Dinner. I took note and looked it up later.
                      Unfortunately, I didn't find it as helpful or inspiring as you did.
                      No surprise. We all respond differently to spiritual messages. For example, I like "Utah Man," you like "Rise and Shout."
                      “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                      ― W.H. Auden


                      "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                      -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                      "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                      --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tex View Post
                        No need to get carried away, but there are more than a few meetings I'd be happy to cancel were it in my power. Of course, we're assuming the members would use that extra time to actually do service, rather than catching a little more Sunday football. I'm not sure the raging Mormon simpleton is up to the challenge.
                        I find that most people in the Church feel good about the meetings they attend and only complain so you will know how important their meetings are. I regularly skip my meetings because they interfere with my ability to get my kids ready for Church. When asked by the Bishop on why I don't attend, I told him that I didn't think the subject of the meeting was as important as getting my kids dressed. It may not always be service that is needed instead of talk.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                          No surprise. We all respond differently to spiritual messages.
                          No doubt about that. I was just a little disappointed because I was really looking for something at that time and the talk just didn't do anything for me.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KillerDog View Post
                            I find that most people in the Church feel good about the meetings they attend and only complain so you will know how important their meetings are.
                            Not my experience. I know that the clerk's and exec secretaries that I know do not want to be babysitting the bishop for hours on end during tithing settlement. They'd rather be playing basketball with me in the same building, or at home with family or watching TV. They don't complain to me, but they are not really happy with the hours they put in. They do it because they are obligated. A sense of duty. They'd be glad to not attend if they didn't feel the duty/obligation.

                            I don't attend any meetings outside of the block. Sometimes I skip even some of those meetings. Sometimes I complain about them. But I can assure you that it is not because I think they are important.

                            I wonder what kind of area you live in that these people you know feel so self important. But I suspect that you were generalizing and/or projecting.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                              They don't complain to me, but they are not really happy with the hours they put in.
                              They don't complain to you? Then they aren't the type of people I'm talking about, are they? At least try and respond instead of trying to twist every complaint regarding the Church into an indictment of the complainer.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KillerDog View Post
                                They don't complain to you? Then they aren't the type of people I'm talking about, are they? At least try and respond instead of trying to twist every complaint regarding the Church into an indictment of the complainer.
                                They don't say anything, usually. They do give a roll of the eye, an upset look when they don't get to do what they wanted because they were stuck in Tuesday night meetings for too long.

                                As for your last sentence. That's a strange accusation to level at me.

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