LDS Church reacts to sale of free Christmas concert tickets

[BlueHair]

What's next? Conference tickets? Temple recommends? After all, why begrudge them a profit? If there's a market, no one should be upset by someone selling.

And as to the church's statement, the operant word is OPPORTUNITY. In a lottery system, everyone who enters has an opportunity to win. If entering doesn't cost anything, no one is barred economically from entry and everyone who has interest enough to enter, does in fact have an opportunity. Which begs the question - "Do stupid people write this stuff?"

I had no idea concert tickets were as sacred to people as temple recommends. So which person is commiting the greater sin - the person selling the tickets or the person buying the tickets?

[wuapinmon]

What's next? Conference tickets? Temple recommends? After all, why begrudge them a profit? If there's a market, no one should be upset by someone selling.

And as to the church's statement, the operant word is OPPORTUNITY. In a lottery system, everyone who enters has an opportunity to win. If entering doesn't cost anything, no one is barred economically from entry and everyone who has interest enough to enter, does in fact have an opportunity. Which begs the question - "Do stupid people write this stuff?"

[cowboy]

I'll fall predictably. This seems cut and dried to me. If the intent was to help the poor and needy, then the Church would sell the tickets and give the money to the poor. That they didn't suggests that the Church simply wants to ensure that everyone who want to see the show will not be constrained by their economic circumstances. David Archuletta apparently feels likewise, or he would be charging for his time.

This isn't like a random gift given to people that may or may not want it. By signing up for the lottery, people are saying they want to go. If they turn around and sell the tickets, then they are misrepresenting their intent and they are turning something that was meant to be free into something that is unaffordale for the precise demographic that the Church and Archuletta intended to serve.

I doubt this is a case where the profiteers are only doing this because it's their last hope to afford an orange for little Jimmy's stocking. Nor do I think that the majority of the sellers intended to go, but something just came up. I suspect this is capitalism, pure and simple. But just because a market exists doesn't mean it should be developed. The Church and Archuletta wanted to give a gift to people. To make money off of that gift by pretending to want it is contrary to the spirit of the offereing.

[Non Sequitur]

I'm trying to understand this statement:



Free tickets doesn't mean that "everyone" will have the opportunity to attend. Do stupid people write this stuff?

It kind of does mean that. Some people can't afford to spend $40 a pop for tickets to the concert. If the tickets are free, they have the OPPORTUNITY to see the concert. Obviously, seats are limited so not everyone will be able to actually see the concert, but they do have the opportunity.

[TripletDaddy]

I'll fall predictably. This seems cut and dried to me. If the intent was to help the poor and needy, then the Church would sell the tickets and give the money to the poor. That they didn't suggests that the Church simply wants to ensure that everyone who want to see the show will not be constrained by their economic circumstances. David Archuletta apparently feels likewise, or he would be charging for his time.

This isn't like a random gift given to people that may or may not want it. By signing up for the lottery, people are saying they want to go. If they turn around and sell the tickets, then they are misrepresenting their intent and they are turning something that was meant to be free into something that is unaffordale for the precise demographic that the Church and Archuletta intended to serve.

I doubt this is a case where the profiteers are only doing this because it's their last hope to afford an orange for little Jimmy's stocking. Nor do I think that the majority of the sellers intended to go, but something just came up. I suspect this is capitalism, pure and simple. But just because a market exists doesn't mean it should be developed. The Church and Archuletta wanted to give a gift to people. To make money off of that gift by pretending to want it is contrary to the spirit of the offereing.

Not selling them likely had more to do with not dancing the fine line of 501 c3 than anything else. The church probably doesn't want to put on annual concerts and sell tickets to the public

[Moliere]

Wow, $250 a piece!! Next year I'm entering this lottery system to try and get some of these tickets. Granted I live 1,600 miles away and have no intention to attend but I can't pass up this opportunity to make a buck.

On a serious note, I've always wanted to actually attend these concerts (at least when I lived in Utah). They seem to be well done. If the church would just broadcast them live on BYUtv many people would be happy to stay home and watch on tv and those who really wanted to go live could go, most likely free of charge.

[CardiacCoug]

It kind of does mean that. Some people can't afford to spend $40 a pop for tickets to the concert. If the tickets are free, they have the OPPORTUNITY to see the concert. Obviously, seats are limited so not everyone will be able to actually see the concert, but they do have the opportunity.

Seems to me that only people who are fortunate enough to win a random drawing will have the opportunity to attend the concert, not that "everyone will have the opportunity".

Now if the U gave out free tickets for a Ute basketball game, it would be true that "everyone would have the opportunity" to attend.

[creekster]

Not selling them likely had more to do with not dancing the fine line of 501 c3 than anything else. The church probably doesn't want to put on annual concerts and sell tickets to the public

how do you know this? It obviously might have something to do with it but on what basis do you conclude it probably had something to do with tax status over 'anything else?"

[RobinFinderson]

This isn't like a random gift given to people that may or may not want it. By signing up for the lottery, people are saying they want to go. If they turn around and sell the tickets, then they are misrepresenting their intent and they are turning something that was meant to be free into something that is unaffordale for the precise demographic that the Church and Archuletta intended to serve.

OR, by signing up for the lottery they are saying that they want a relatively high chance to be given something worth $80 (I assume the tickets are awarded in pairs?).

Anyhow, the people who signed up for the tickets for the purpose of scalping them are no worse than the people who choose to buy the scalped tickets. Who is more likely to be swayed by the church's position? Ticket scalpers or people really interested in seeing a church-sponsored X-mas concert? If the church really wanted to dissuade this kind of activity, they should tell all members that it is immoral to buy these tickets from scalpers.

[Surfah]

Seems to me that only people who are fortunate enough to win a random drawing will have the opportunity to attend the concert, not that "everyone will have the opportunity".

Now if the U gave out free tickets for a Ute basketball game, it would be true that "everyone would have the opportunity" to attend.

I don't understand your hang up with the wording. Opportunity doesn't guarantee tickets to anyone.

[CardiacCoug]

I don't understand your hang up with the wording. Opportunity doesn't guarantee tickets to anyone.

Fine, fine. I have an opportunity to win the Powerball today. I hear you.

[creekster]

Seems to me that only people who are fortunate enough to win a random drawing will have the opportunity to attend the concert, not that "everyone will have the opportunity".

Now if the U gave out free tickets for a Ute basketball game, it would be true that "everyone would have the opportunity" to attend.

You are just being stubborn. Equality of opportunity (no cost barrier, random drawing) is not the same as equality of result (getting tickets). EVERYONE has the opportunity under the system. The only exception might be a barrier to entering the lottery (computer or phone access). But that seems to be picking at nits.

[Uncle Ted]

Wow, $250 a piece!! Next year I'm entering this lottery system to try and get some of these tickets. Granted I live 1,600 miles away and have no intention to attend but I can't pass up this opportunity to make a buck.

On a serious note, I've always wanted to actually attend these concerts (at least when I lived in Utah). They seem to be well done. If the church would just broadcast them live on BYUtv many people would be happy to stay home and watch on tv and those who really wanted to go live could go, most likely free of charge.

Maybe, to be fair, they shouldn't give out any tickets and only broadcast the concert on BYUTV from an empty concert hall. Then most everyone that wanted to see the concert could from the same exact (virtual) seat. Also, anyone could sell tickets to other people to watch the concert on their new HDTV in surround sound.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Wow, $250 a piece!! Next year I'm entering this lottery system to try and get some of these tickets. Granted I live 1,600 miles away and have no intention to attend but I can't pass up this opportunity to make a buck.

My mom always enters me in the lottery. I don't think we have ever won, but now I know I could get $500 for a pair I would just tell her we didn't get them.

[CardiacCoug]

You are just being stubborn. Equality of opportunity (no cost barrier, random drawing) is not the same as equality of result (getting tickets). EVERYONE has the opportunity under the system. The only exception might be a barrier to entering the lottery (computer or phone access). But that seems to be picking at nits.

I stand corrected and am feeling more optimistic in my worldview already.

So nice to know that everyone has so many great opportunities.