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[woot]

Regarding the wording of how members should fast, my guess is that they meant to say that it should be for 24 hours, but wanted to get a mention in there of the 2 meals that otherwise would have been eaten during that time, as a reminder of the old dictum that whatever you would have spent on those 2 meals should be a baseline fast offering.

It's nevertheless poorly worded, but I would bet that's the source of the confusion.

[grapevine]

For fasting I don't think I did it the right way but as soon as church is over get something to eat. I rarely missed two meals. Has to be 24 hours is on the fanatical side I think. Two meals and maybe Sunday meal is eating earlier. I always have dinner Saturday evening before starvation sunday. At neices blessing left after sacrament meeting felt a little guilty about eating too soon though.

Some singles wards I been in had break the fast dinners. Don't know if that is appropriate though. Some family wards in Florida did as well. If we had dinner at night than 12:00 church not full 24 hour fast.

Interesting story I heard that Dave wasw at Area Seventies home and told of how he was in Ghana were they eat one meal a day so fast for 72 hours. I would not do that myself.

As for Fast Offerings I have not had deacons come by for a long time. I just pay them as soon as I get paid. If my check is not deposited yet wait until it is than pay fast offerings. I don't think you need to pay fast offerings on fast sunday.

[Paperback Writer]

As for Fast Offerings I have not had deacons come by for a long time. I just pay them as soon as I get paid. If my check is not deposited yet wait until it is than pay fast offerings. I don't think you need to pay fast offerings on fast sunday.

A little off topic but this a sore point with me - deacons collecting fast offerings...apologize in advance for the rant. My SP has determined that deacons are to collect FO every fast Sunday...2 AP have to go to the door. An adult has to drive since the routes are long (about 20 miles by my odometer). So to do FO, a total of 16 AP and 8 adults are required - it basically ties up the entire YM organization. Because the bishopric doesn't want to stay too long after the meeting block to count donations, we have to begin FO routes at 8:30 AM in order to finish in time to return home and make the 11:00 AM start of meetings. So what is happening is that families are being woken up by two deacons ringing the doorbell. Further, the majority of members want to pay with tithing, but deacons are instructed by SP to knock anyway because "that shouldn't be an option". Even families of bishopric and HC tell the deacons that they will "pay another time" snce the father is not home because of church meetings. Consequently, the AP is getting very discouraged over FO collecting and have trouble understanding why they have to do something that the members don't really support.

[creekster]

A little off topic but this a sore point with me - deacons collecting fast offerings...apologize in advance for the rant. My SP has determined that deacons are to collect FO every fast Sunday...2 AP have to go to the door. An adult has to drive since the routes are long (about 20 miles by my odometer). So to do FO, a total of 16 AP and 8 adults are required - it basically ties up the entire YM organization. Because the bishopric doesn't want to stay too long after the meeting block to count donations, we have to begin FO routes at 8:30 AM in order to finish in time to return home and make the 11:00 AM start of meetings. So what is happening is that families are being woken up by two deacons ringing the doorbell. Further, the majority of members want to pay with tithing, but deacons are instructed by SP to knock anyway because "that shouldn't be an option". Even families of bishopric and HC tell the deacons that they will "pay another time" snce the father is not home because of church meetings. Consequently, the AP is getting very discouraged over FO collecting and have trouble understanding why they have to do something that the members don't really support.

In our ward we pre-select the families to be visited, determining they consent to the visit and that they will usually be prepared for it. Deacons have a good experience, families feel like the contributed more than just the FO and everyone gets to church feeling good about it.

[Pheidippides]

In our ward we pre-select the families to be visited, determining they consent to the visit and that they will usually be prepared for it. Deacons have a good experience, families feel like the contributed more than just the FO and everyone gets to church feeling good about it.

We did that too, only I was one of the ones selected and I never can find my checkbook on Sunday.

[creekster]

We did that too, only I was one of the ones selected and I never can find my checkbook on Sunday.

Just like you can never find your wallet at lunch. Sure. we get it.

[Moliere]

A little off topic but this a sore point with me - deacons collecting fast offerings...apologize in advance for the rant. My SP has determined that deacons are to collect FO every fast Sunday...2 AP have to go to the door. An adult has to drive since the routes are long (about 20 miles by my odometer). So to do FO, a total of 16 AP and 8 adults are required - it basically ties up the entire YM organization. Because the bishopric doesn't want to stay too long after the meeting block to count donations, we have to begin FO routes at 8:30 AM in order to finish in time to return home and make the 11:00 AM start of meetings. So what is happening is that families are being woken up by two deacons ringing the doorbell. Further, the majority of members want to pay with tithing, but deacons are instructed by SP to knock anyway because "that shouldn't be an option". Even families of bishopric and HC tell the deacons that they will "pay another time" snce the father is not home because of church meetings. Consequently, the AP is getting very discouraged over FO collecting and have trouble understanding why they have to do something that the members don't really support.

You realize that to have 2-deep leadership you will need to double the amount of adults.

Also, someone in your ward needs to complain loudly to the SP.

[Paperback Writer]

In our ward we pre-select the families to be visited, determining they consent to the visit and that they will usually be prepared for it. Deacons have a good experience, families feel like the contributed more than just the FO and everyone gets to church feeling good about it.

I suggested that would be a good question for the bishop to bring up during tithing settlement - do you want the deacons/AP to come to your door for FO? It didn't go anywhere. SP really wants everyone to pay FO at the door and the membership in our ward (and I would assume most others) isn't really behind it.

[scottie]

A little off topic but this a sore point with me - deacons collecting fast offerings...apologize in advance for the rant. My SP has determined that deacons are to collect FO every fast Sunday...2 AP have to go to the door. An adult has to drive since the routes are long (about 20 miles by my odometer). So to do FO, a total of 16 AP and 8 adults are required - it basically ties up the entire YM organization. Because the bishopric doesn't want to stay too long after the meeting block to count donations, we have to begin FO routes at 8:30 AM in order to finish in time to return home and make the 11:00 AM start of meetings. So what is happening is that families are being woken up by two deacons ringing the doorbell. Further, the majority of members want to pay with tithing, but deacons are instructed by SP to knock anyway because "that shouldn't be an option". Even families of bishopric and HC tell the deacons that they will "pay another time" snce the father is not home because of church meetings. Consequently, the AP is getting very discouraged over FO collecting and have trouble understanding why they have to do something that the members don't really support.

About three months ago our ward started doing fast offering callbacks -- if you weren't home for the deacons on Fast Sunday they come back the following Sunday. Now, our ward boundaries (two city blocks) are not long routes, but this is the first time I've ever heard of callbacks.

[Paperback Writer]

You realize that to have 2-deep leadership you will need to double the amount of adults.

Wasn't aware that preisthood activities had to follow 2-deep leadership. I know that rule is in place for Boy Scout activities.

Also, someone in your ward needs to complain loudly to the SP.

It's been done. The result was a rebuke (by my interpertation) in the last Ward conference. Part of the problem is the (9:00/11:00/1:00/3:00) meeting times for units in our building. And bishopric didn't want to stay hours after the block of meetings for AP to collect FO and then return. It worked a little better when AP could collect FO after church or after 10:00 am. But there are still families who don't want us to come to the door. Even caught the ward cleck pulling his FO envelope from the route because his wife didn't want deacons coming to the door in the morning.

[Moliere]

About three months ago our ward started doing fast offering callbacks -- if you weren't home for the deacons on Fast Sunday they come back the following Sunday. Now, our ward boundaries (two city blocks) are not long routes, but this is the first time I've ever heard of callbacks.

It's been done. The result was a rebuke (by my interpertation) in the last Ward conference. Part of the problem is the (9:00/11:00/1:00/3:00) meeting times for units in our building. And bishopric didn't want to stay hours after the block of meetings for AP to collect FO and then return. It worked a little better when AP could collect FO after church or after 10:00 am. But there are still families who don't want us to come to the door. Even caught the ward cleck pulling his FO envelope from the route because his wife didn't want deacons coming to the door in the morning.

In my observations, stake callings (yes that includes the SP) is akin to middle management in a large corporation. They are better off teaching general guidelines and getting involved in specifics when needed, but when they start micromanaging they only cause more problems and more work.

[Paperback Writer]

In my observations, stake callings (yes that includes the SP) is akin to middle management in a large corporation. They are better off teaching general guidelines and getting involved in specifics when needed, but when they start micromanaging they only cause more problems and more work.

Interesting, and a view I agree with. But one not shared at the SP level. Case in point. We have all been challenged to read the BOM by the next stake conference. Seminary students complained that it was difficult with their regular HS studies and having to read the D&C as well for seminary. The reply from SP was "well...when I was a missionary, our MP challenged the entire mission to read the BOM in about 2 weeks. So each compaionship spent each morning (4 hours a day) to accomplish that. I see no reason why HS/seminary students can't read the BOM over the 2-week Christmas break."

[Donuthole]

Interesting, and a view I agree with. But one not shared at the SP level. Case in point. We have all been challenged to read the BOM by the next stake conference. Seminary students complained that it was difficult with their regular HS studies and having to read the D&C as well for seminary. The reply from SP was "well...when I was a missionary, our MP challenged the entire mission to read the BOM in about 2 weeks. So each compaionship spent each morning (4 hours a day) to accomplish that. I see no reason why HS/seminary students can't read the BOM over the 2-week Christmas break."

Oh how I would have loved to stay inside for 4 hours each morning and read the BOM instead of heading out for what would almost certainly be the least-productive 3 hours of my day.

[Pheidippides]

Just like you can never find your wallet at lunch. Sure. we get it.

Nay, you misunderstand my MO. But I'm sure Babs or DDD can explain it without flaw.

[Moliere]

Interesting, and a view I agree with. But one not shared at the SP level. Case in point. We have all been challenged to read the BOM by the next stake conference. Seminary students complained that it was difficult with their regular HS studies and having to read the D&C as well for seminary. The reply from SP was "well...when I was a missionary, our MP challenged the entire mission to read the BOM in about 2 weeks. So each compaionship spent each morning (4 hours a day) to accomplish that. I see no reason why HS/seminary students can't read the BOM over the 2-week Christmas break."

Nothing screams effective scripture study like speed reading through the BOM!

I don't say this often, but your stake leadership sucks and it's obvious they are well disconnected from reality.

In previous callings, MJ and I both learned that when stake leaders talk to you, you are better off nodding your head in agreement and listening to the principles they are trying to teach, and then doing what you think is right.