LDS Church Press Release Response to HRC Petition

[woot]

Would that really be new and/or disturbing?

Well, it would give gays more opportunity than straights, since the doctrine that if you don't marry in this life then you can't get the highest degree of glory in the next has been around for a quite a while.

[Pheidippides]

That's a vast improvement over the Packer talk. I hope it will stem some of the bloodletting and the hate speech.

Agreed. Thankfully, for whatever reason, the hate speech hasn't made it around here; maybe I'm just a better judge of character than y'all.

It is the Mormon hate speech that disturbs me most. I am associated with those idiots whether I want to be or not. As I often say, we belong to the same church but not the same religion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UtahDan]

Those with the spirit heard that message in Packer's talk.

That is a good point. I'm going to run over to CB and see if I can round some one up who can tell us what it was.

[Indy Coug]

That is a good point. I'm going to run over to CB and see if I can round some one up who can tell us what it was.

Why not just ask the Spirit?

[RobinFinderson]

Well, it would give gays more freedom than straights, since the doctrine that if you don't marry in this life then you can't get the highest degree of glory in the next has been around for a quite a while.

The church has backed off of this idea. It has also backed off of the idea that suicide = automatic damnation. Basically the church teaches one thing about life after death: everything that sucked about life will have the chance to be made right after death.

Suicide. Never marrying. Born retarded. Born gay. Apostasy after being born in the covenant. Born without a chance to hear the missionaries.

Everything will be righted eventually, if people choose the right path after death (no guarantee that they will). That has been church doctrine now for about 20 years.

[Commando]

Well, it would give gays more opportunity than straights, since the doctrine that if you don't marry in this life then you can't get the highest degree of glory in the next has been around for a quite a while.

But I think we all sort of lean on the notion that we're judged according to the hand dealt us-- like barren mothers will be able to raise kids, we don't judge suicide victims b/c of potential mental illnesses, and we give gays a pass for not being involved in celestial marriages because gayness is a real thing. And I don't think the rule is: "if you don't marry then.." I think it is if you pass up the opportunity to marry. We don't say young people (or old maids for that matter) who die before they get the chance to marry are screwed.

[RobinFinderson]

But I think we all sort of lean on the notion that we're judged according to the hand dealt us-- like barren mothers will be able to raise kids, we don't judge suicide victims b/c of potential mental illnesses, and we give gays a pass for not being involved in celestial marriages because gayness is a real thing. And I don't think the rule is: "if you don't marry then.." I think it is if you pass up the opportunity to marry. We don't say young people (or old maids for that matter) who die before they get the chance to marry are screwed.

I beat you to the punch.

You know, I think that this will eventually become the only refuge for the church once the church's style of homophobia falls completely out of fashion. The church will eventually be able to say, "Yes, being gay is not part of God's plan, but it is nothing that can't be fixed in the eternities by a merciful God. Since life is about attaining a measure of joy, we invite gay people to come and join our Mormon communities with full fellowship. Gay brothers, bring your husbands. Gay sisters, bring your wives. Join us in worship and service. Just because one aspect of your life doesn't seem to fit with God's plan for his children does NOT mean that you should not partake of all of the other fruits of God's church on Earth."

It seems that the church will either whither on the vine, or will eventually embrace some kind of position like this.

[Commando]

I beat you to the punch.

You know, I think that this will eventually become the only refuge for the church once the church's style of homophobia falls completely out of fashion. The church will eventually be able to say, "Yes, being gay is not part of God's plan, but it is nothing that can't be fixed in the eternities by a merciful God. Since life is about attaining a measure of joy, we invite gay people to come and join our Mormon communities with full fellowship. Gay brothers, bring your husbands. Gay sisters, bring your wives. Join us in worship and service. Just because one aspect of your life doesn't seem to fit with God's plan for his children does NOT mean that you should not partake of all of the other fruits of God's church on Earth."

It seems that the church will either whither on the vine, or will eventually embrace some kind of position like this.

Yes, love will conquer all, but I won't go so far as to say it's going to wither on the vine based on the popularity of its stance on this issue.

[UtahDan]

Why not just ask the Spirit?

It just won't follow me here. I've tried. Surely you have experienced the same thing.

[wuapinmon]

What was the HRC petition about?

I liked the response by Michael Otterson. He did a nice job emphasizing the importance of kindness and love and stayed positive while addressing a pretty sensitive issue.

I agree. It was a peaceful message on a very touchy subject.

No worries. The south shall rise again. Right, Wuap?

Either mellon, or, do not disturb the water.

[Moliere]

http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/article...sex-attraction

This is actually the type of talk that I expected (well maybe not expected but hoping) to hear during general conference. Had a similar talk been given, I would imagine it would have brought more hope than BKP's talk.

[OhioBlue]

that's much better. I think the good brother Otterson has earned his paycheck, though I would never see why anyone would want that job.

Anyone who can't see or feel the differences in that statement compared to BKP's talk is silly.

[statman]

Well, it would give gays more opportunity than straights, since the doctrine that if you don't marry in this life then you can't get the highest degree of glory in the next has been around for a quite a while.

Actually, I'd say the actual "doctrine" is something different. D&C tells us that if we make and keep our covenants we'll gain eternal life, but if we don't, we "have no promise."

There's been lots of specualtion about being able to make those covenants later if we didn't get the opportunity to, maybe even some Conference Talks - but it's not scriptural. Not that I know of anyway...

BTW - I googled "have no promise" and came up with a whole bunch of hits from the Puritan theologian Richard Baxter. After skimming through some of the Amazon previews of republication of his writings (late 17th century, I think), it seems like Joseph Smith might have read a bit of Baxter (or heard Baxter preached a time or two). Also, parenthetically, there were a couple collections of Baxter's writings printed in the 1830s. There must've been demand for a collection of his work...

[All-American]

I think this is an encouraging statement. It does not apologize for the Church's doctrine, but it recognizes the pain felt by members of the LGBT community and condemns behavior that aggravates it.

If there is a shortcoming to the statement, it is that it does not do enough to recognize the extent to which the actions of the church, its members, or even its leaders have aggravated that suffering, or to make amends. There's more of CYA than of making amends, I think.

But I like that the release is not just a reaction, but a response. It acknowledges the points which the petitions made and notes the problems both groups are grappling with. It's an encouraging sign, to the extent that a press release issued by a representative of the leadership can represent something meaningful. I wish we'd see this as a talk from a member of the First Presidency, lest it somehow go unnoticed.

[BigFatMeanie]

Well, it would give gays more opportunity than straights, since the doctrine that if you don't marry in this life then you can't get the highest degree of glory in the next has been around for a quite a while.

You simply don't understand Mormon doctrine as much as you think you do.