Unfortunate Byproduct of Elder Packer's Talk

[dabrockster]

Sounds like someone will soon be "De-Friended".. All of them need a time-out...

Edit: I guess was late. She removed her or him while in the middle of the discussion..

[Pheidippides]

I don't face book, and walking by the computer and seeing this type of stuff all over my wife's page makes me really happy about that right now.

My page, thankfully, does not. I am quick to unfriend people without filters or common sense.

I just reread the talk, btw. It does not disturb me as much as it did live (I'm aware of the changes) if I can ignore a paragraph or two.


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[TripletDaddy]

Another unfortunate by-product of BKP's talk is that this issue is the main thing everyone seems to be talking about in the media, at Church, socially, etc. As is my custom, I read talks after conference. There were some nice messages given but they all seem overshadowed by this issue.

And while I understand that the Church feels strongly about this, the talk shed no new light on the Church's stance. With Prop 8 so fresh in everyone's minds, the talk really didn't strike me as additive. Did the world need reminding less than a year after Prop 8? Mormons are opposed to gay marriage, everyone gets it.

Of all the topics discussed, I wonder whether the Church's main goal was to wrap up conference with gay marriage and the origin of homosexuality as the central takeaway for discussion in the coming months.

[byu71]

If you are an active member of the church or even an active member of the LDS culture, what is the worst insult that can be hurled your way. You are stupid, you are naive, you are ignorant. Nope the worst insult is, you don't follow the brethern. You don't follow the men who speak for God. You aren't going to be one of the ones asked to trek back to Missouri.

I have found this when I have suggested changes could be made to the HC. Calling me an HC hater didn't bother me, but I will admit when, they play the BOT support the honor code and they speak for God and you are out of step, I do feel a bit of a sting.

I value my membership in the church and the culture. I respect the leaders of the church. I recoil when someone plays the, you don't support the brethern card.

[OrangeUte]

Sounds like what we do every day, no?

The real point in my posting this, though, is that since Elder Packer's talk I have felt a real upsurge in openly hostile messages towards gays from LDS members than at any other time that I can recall, including Prop 8. I'm not just talking about on the forums of no consequence on the internets, but on Facebook pages and in tweets, from peers and even out in public places. I feel like I have been confronted with a noticeable uptick of hurtful and possibly damaging statements made with little or no thought. It has been disheartening and disconcerting.

yes, and they are being made under the guise of "love the sinner but not the sin". to me, the big hypocrisy is that we talk about the still small voice being able to change, and how we need our families to be strong enough to defend against the world. then our church goes out on an offensive against a group that it considers sinners and puts its effort into taking away/prohibiting access to certain legal rights from that group. it's hard to see how this could possibly be considered "loving the sinner" or "strengthening our families".

[OrangeUte]

Another unfortunate by-product of BKP's talk is that this issue is the main thing everyone seems to be talking about in the media, at Church, socially, etc. As is my custom, I read talks after conference. There were some nice messages given but they all seem overshadowed by this issue.

And while I understand that the Church feels strongly about this, the talk shed no new light on the Church's stance. With Prop 8 so fresh in everyone's minds, the talk really didn't strike me as additive. Did the world need reminding less than a year after Prop 8? Mormons are opposed to gay marriage, everyone gets it.

Of all the topics discussed, I wonder whether the Church's main goal was to wrap up conference with gay marriage and the origin of homosexuality as the central takeaway for discussion in the coming months.

good point. the church seems like it is using karl rove for strategy on the gay marriage issue.

[UtahDan]

Another unfortunate by-product of BKP's talk is that this issue is the main thing everyone seems to be talking about in the media, at Church, socially, etc. As is my custom, I read talks after conference. There were some nice messages given but they all seem overshadowed by this issue.

And while I understand that the Church feels strongly about this, the talk shed no new light on the Church's stance. With Prop 8 so fresh in everyone's minds, the talk really didn't strike me as additive. Did the world need reminding less than a year after Prop 8? Mormons are opposed to gay marriage, everyone gets it.

Of all the topics discussed, I wonder whether the Church's main goal was to wrap up conference with gay marriage and the origin of homosexuality as the central takeaway for discussion in the coming months.

I agree that the church probably did not want that to be the take away from GC, but a lot of people had to be asleep at the wheel not to see it coming. Maybe the interest in this issue is still being underestimated. I'm not sure. It is hard for me to think that the institutional church, as image oriented as it is, is unaware that it has to a large degree become that anti-gay church in the minds of many.

But I don't agree that it is unfortunate that all of this focus has been put here. I know that many people see all of this as a distracting sidelight from other important issues, but a lot of people view it as the most important issue of our time. It is the issue that is defining the church right now whether it wants that or not. I think getting this out in the open for discussion, even if a lot of it is hurtful or ignorant, is a very good thing in the main.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah, Facebook has been a real struggle for me this week.

If I see another person using the expression "sifting the wheat from the tares" I am going to puke.

[Levin]

Another unfortunate by-product of BKP's talk is that this issue is the main thing everyone seems to be talking about in the media, at Church, socially, etc. As is my custom, I read talks after conference. There were some nice messages given but they all seem overshadowed by this issue.

And while I understand that the Church feels strongly about this, the talk shed no new light on the Church's stance. With Prop 8 so fresh in everyone's minds, the talk really didn't strike me as additive. Did the world need reminding less than a year after Prop 8? Mormons are opposed to gay marriage, everyone gets it.

Of all the topics discussed, I wonder whether the Church's main goal was to wrap up conference with gay marriage and the origin of homosexuality as the central takeaway for discussion in the coming months.

Good point. It's like 9/11 -- we've spent $1 trillion fighting the war against terrorism when we could have used that money to build high-speed rail and purchase grazing rights to get the damn cattle off of our public lands. The attack diverted our energies.

But in all seriousness, it's true -- there's so much wasted energy that could have been better spent focusing on other matters. Like both of Elder Uchtdorf's talks. Or Elder Holland's. Or President Monson's on gratitude, etc., etc.

[Portland Ute]

Yeah, Facebook has been a real struggle for me this week.

If I see another person using the expression "sifting the wheat from the tares" I am going to puke.

Or "the wicked take the truth to be hard."

Ick.

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the issue of gay marriage.

However, one thing I absolutely DO know is that the hate, anger, vitriol, etc. from BOTH sides is nauseating.

As byu71 said, the stuff that especially angers me are the LDS folks that say that anyone who disagrees with their world view is an apostate or does not follow the 12.

Then again, I've been told that I am taking the truth to be hard because I am wicked. I haven't even criticized BKP, just the people that are so caustic in voicing their opinions about homosexuality. Go figure.

Since I am not gay and am LDS, the crap coming from Mormons bothers me more.

[OrangeUte]

Or "the wicked take the truth to be hard."

Ick.

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the issue of gay marriage.

However, one thing I absolutely DO know is that the hate, anger, vitriol, etc. from BOTH sides is nauseating.

As byu71 said, the stuff that especially angers me are the LDS folks that say that anyone who disagrees with their world view is an apostate or does not follow the 12.

Then again, I've been told that I am taking the truth to be hard because I am wicked. I haven't even criticized BKP, just the people that are so caustic in voicing their opinions about homosexuality. Go figurs.

Since I am not gay and am LDS, the crap coming from Mormons bothers me more.

if i recall correctly, the initial letter from the first presidency on prop 8 indicated that each member could determine to what extent they would support the effort to pass it into law. i determined none of my effort was the appropriate level. i have carried that same thinking into whether or not i will adopt the same thinking re: gay rights - it's up to me, not the church, to determine how much support i will give to their efforts in the public political forum. that has nothing to do with my own worthiness, and if it does, then perhaps the church has drawn a line for me that i didn't realize existed based on their own words.

[RobinFinderson]

If you are an active member of the church or even an active member of the LDS culture, what is the worst insult that can be hurled your way. You are stupid, you are naive, you are ignorant. Nope the worst insult is, you don't follow the brethern. You don't follow the men who speak for God. You aren't going to be one of the ones asked to trek back to Missouri.

I have found this when I have suggested changes could be made to the HC. Calling me an HC hater didn't bother me, but I will admit when, they play the BOT support the honor code and they speak for God and you are out of step, I do feel a bit of a sting.

I value my membership in the church and the culture. I respect the leaders of the church. I recoil when someone plays the, you don't support the brethern card.

Eventually, everyone will have to accept that one 'follows the prophet' in the same way that one 'follows the New York Times,' i.e. one takes in and thoughtfully considers what the source presents, as the only reasonable meaning of the idea of 'following the prophet.'

[DU Ute]

Yeah, Facebook has been a real struggle for me this week.

If I see another person using the expression "sifting the wheat from the tares" I am going to puke.

That is such a tare thing to say.

[Indy Coug]

That is such a tare thing to say.

That's a tare-ible pun.

[TheBYUGuy]

Eventually, everyone will have to accept that one 'follows the prophet' in the same way that one 'follows the New York Times,' i.e. one takes in and thoughtfully considers what the source presents, as the only reasonable meaning of the idea of 'following the prophet.'

You're recycling old material now. You may be more SU than I originally thought.