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DesNews editorial on BKP talk and reaction

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  • I remember taking a religion class from Joseph Fielding McConkie (big mistake) and sitting there listening to him go through his daily/weekly routine:

    1. Reference something his father told him about "such and such" doctrine
    2. Remind everyone that we could buy his books at a lower price if we purchased them directly from him in his office (I think I bought about 6 or 7 of his books)
    3. Talk about his being a mission president in Scotland.

    He actually was a good teacher when he would finally get around to teaching the material, but you could always sense a bit of tension when the topic of our modern day leaders arose. Esp in re T-Mo.

    I recall being quite surprised when JFM explained that some leaders are "scriptorians," others are "storytellers." He indicated that Neal A. Maxwell was a scriptorian and that T-Mo was a storyteller. He then asked us rhetorically, "which do you want to be? It is up to you but one requires diligent study." He seemed to be implying things about T-Mo that were not altogether flattering.

    That was probably my first glimpse behind the Wizards curtain at BYU, when I saw firsthand that even the most die-hard Zoobs have their own very distinct opinions about leadership.
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

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    • The big buzzword I am hearing lately is "Abinidi". The other day a friend of ours (who is well-connected to some top LDS leaders) referred to "our recent Abinidi moment" and said that the world is so evil now that our leaders can no longer speak the truth boldly for fear of retribution. Soon they will only be able to speak to us in parables.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
        Perhaps you forget. To many, he is the Prophet of God. When he speaks, whether it be an opinion or not, many many think he is speaking for God.
        So the one person that could put an end to this bickering and misunderstanding is the one that should lay low and wait for the fallout. That seems like the exact opposite of what he should do. Allowing the Q12 to contradict themselves seems like a much worse thing to allow to happen


        Originally posted by byu71 View Post
        He just can't be throwing opinions out there as others can.
        That hasn't stopped any of the prior individuals that held the same title from doing the same.
        "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
          The big buzzword I am hearing lately is "Abinidi". The other day a friend of ours (who is well-connected to some top LDS leaders) referred to "our recent Abinidi moment" and said that the world is so evil now that our leaders can no longer speak the truth boldly for fear of retribution. Soon they will only be able to speak to us in parables.
          They could always just write and distribute conference using the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_alphabet"]Deseret alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/Fileeseret_Alphabet.svg" class="image"><img alt="Deseret Alphabet.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Deseret_Alphabet.svg/200px-Deseret_Alphabet.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fa/Deseret_Alphabet.svg/200px-Deseret_Alphabet.svg.png[/ame].
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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          • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            The big buzzword I am hearing lately is "Abinidi". The other day a friend of ours (who is well-connected to some top LDS leaders) referred to "our recent Abinidi moment" and said that the world is so evil now that our leaders can no longer speak the truth boldly for fear of retribution. Soon they will only be able to speak to us in parables.
            Abinidi would scoff at our current "persecution." Modern day prophets need to show some sack!

            How awesome would that be if we started showing up to Church and our leaders would speak to us only in parables?

            How long before someone raises their hand and asks, "Bishop, what the hell are you talking about? And why are you speaking in king's English all of a sudden?"
            Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

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            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              The big buzzword I am hearing lately is "Abinidi". The other day a friend of ours (who is well-connected to some top LDS leaders) referred to "our recent Abinidi moment" and said that the world is so evil now that our leaders can no longer speak the truth boldly for fear of retribution. Soon they will only be able to speak to us in parables.
              That is sort of funny because even though I am in Northern California, which is the epicenter of these issues, I have never heard anyone talk in those terms.
              PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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              • Originally posted by creekster View Post
                That is sort of funny because even though I am in Northern California, which is the epicenter of these issues, I have never heard anyone talk in those terms.
                This particular person worships BKP. Also a big Julie Beck fan. For some reason she is enamored with "speaking the truth boldly" and tries to do likewise at every opportunity.
                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
                  So the one person that could put an end to this bickering and misunderstanding is the one that should lay low and wait for the fallout. That seems like the exact opposite of what he should do. Allowing the Q12 to contradict themselves seems like a much worse thing to allow to happen




                  That hasn't stopped any of the prior individuals that held the same title from doing the same.
                  I guess you believe President Monson can speak to God anytime he wants and get an answer. I don't. So I guess that is why I don't think he can come out and speak for God right now and put an end to it.


                  As for how prior individuals handled things, well again I guess they are individuals and therefor may handle things differently.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                    Abinidi would scoff at our current "persecution." Modern day prophets need to show some sack!
                    No comparison at all. Elder Packer is criticized by homosexuals while the skin of Abinadi was scourged with, um, burning sticks.

                    BTW, I think Jeff Lebowski's spelling betrays his scripture study habits.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                      No comparison at all. Elder Packer is criticized by homosexuals while the skin of Abinadi was scourged with, um, burning sticks.

                      BTW, I think Jeff Lebowski's spelling betrays his scripture study habits.
                      He's the dude that built the big boat, right?
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        He's the dude that built the big boat, right?
                        No, that was Abraham. Remember he had the two sons and they had a fight over some soup or something like that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                          I guess you believe President Monson can speak to God anytime he wants and get an answer. I don't.
                          71, I agree with you here 100%. I have to admit that I didn't alway think this way, but reality and experience has pursuaded me otherwise.

                          Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                          So I guess that is why I don't think he can come out and speak for God right now and put an end to it.
                          I never said that he should speak for God, I simply said that he could put an end by speaking up.

                          Maybe it is wise for him to not share his opinion in such a devisive subject. Maybe TSM feels that he should not publicly chastise BKP's opinions as it doesn't show a united group. Maybe he feels that BKP is on his last leg and once he is gone everything will blow over.

                          This just seems like an issue that is not going away anytime soon. I don't know how often the prophet commented on the priesthood ban when there was all the political and media uproar in the late 60's and 70's. There could be all sorts of discussion and prayer by the Q12 on the subject that we don't know about (or at least with the little time they have left after giddily talking about the CCC).

                          So at least until he does chime in it gives us some foder to fill up a message board. Then again it might be even more interesting after he speaks...
                          "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sullyute View Post

                            This just seems like an issue that is not going away anytime soon. I don't know how often the prophet commented on the priesthood ban when there was all the political and media uproar in the late 60's and 70's.
                            I am trying to think what message I got from the Prophet on the Priesthood thing in the 60's and 70's. The only thing I can think of is, they are children of God and we don't know why they can't have the Priesthood now.

                            However, underlings were teaching the fence sitting stuff. On my mission, we were not to proselyte blacks. Although there are discussion about the brethern being unhappy with McConkie and some of his statements, I don't ever remember it being out there in the public. Heck, I found out the dispeasure of some of the brethern with McConkie's writings here on this board.

                            I doubt you will ever see one of the 12 or First Presidency openly criticize another member. The core membership of the church think they speak for God. They don't want to dissuade in any way that perception.

                            It is like President Hinckley on Larry King live. Remember the famous caffein question. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard, not drinking caffeine is a commandment and then they reference President Hinckley on Larry King Live.

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