DesNews editorial on BKP talk and reaction

[Moliere]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50...s-sex.html.csp

I don't know if this has already been posted, but apparently President Uchtdorff gave a speach on sunday evening re: same sex attraction.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50537493-78/uchtdorf-church-lds-sex.html.csp

it would be interesting to have sat in on the professor's bio-ethics course on this subject.

Your wish is my (or I guess John Dehlin's) command

http://mormonstories.org/?p=1158

[OrangeUte]

Your wish is my (or I guess John Dehlin's) command

http://mormonstories.org/?p=1158

awesome. thanks for the link! i haven't checked mormon stories in awhile to see what's new.

[RobinFinderson]

Where is President Monson in all of this? These days it is all Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Packer. The fact that Uchtdorf had to make his recent statement at all is evidence of a couple of things. 1. The top brass is discussing this and it is a matter of utmost importance. 2. They are muddling their way through it.

It looks like President Monson isn't showing much leadership here, but I guess that it should be expected that in any group of men that size, only a few will be real leaders. I have no disdain for President Monson at all, but he doesn't seem like a very compelling figure, and as the conservatives like to say about Obama, he seems like a man in over his head.

[COUGALICIOUS]

It looks like President Monson isn't showing much leadership here, but I guess that it should be expected that in any group of men that size, only a few will be real leaders. I have no disdain for President Monson at all, but he doesn't seem like a very compelling figure, and as the conservatives like to say about Obama, he seems like a man in over his head.

I'm laughing at the contrast between what you must be thinking when you write that, and what I am thinking of you for writing that. That is the greatest divide.

[oxcoug]

that pretty much sums it up. If only more would recognize just how ironic that is.

Joseph Smith said - mostly likely in some self-referential commentary - that a prophet is only a prophet when he is speaking by inspiration as a God's mouthpiece, but that at other times he is subject to their own opinions and the error that comes (by implication) from their historical context.

No thinking LDS who reads the thoughts of Paul on women and chastity can think that the Pauline epistles contain perfect doctrine - or in fact that they aren't just wrong on several points.

BKP is an old school dude from an old school milieu. That is going to manifest itself in a variety of ways, some of which are unfortunate.

None of which is to say - in my view - that what he said was OK. It would be advisable for the brethren to institute a shared vetting process for any public statements or GC talks that are going to deal with controversial issues so that they can team up to conjure some of President Hinckley's magical softening inflections.

And really, on this subject, as many have noted BKP is just the wrong guy to have doing the talking - Holland, Scott, Eyring, Oaks, Uchtdorf... any of these guys could have delivered almost the same message (with a few small edits) and got an entirely different response.

[Indy Coug]

Where is President Monson in all of this? These days it is all Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Packer. The fact that Uchtdorf had to make his recent statement at all is evidence of a couple of things. 1. The top brass is discussing this and it is a matter of utmost importance. 2. They are muddling their way through it.

It looks like President Monson isn't showing much leadership here, but I guess that it should be expected that in any group of men that size, only a few will be real leaders. I have no disdain for President Monson at all, but he doesn't seem like a very compelling figure, and as the conservatives like to say about Obama, he seems like a man in over his head.

I don't know how he can be over his head after more than 40 years as an apostle and heaven knows how many years in the First Presidency.

If we were making Obama analogies here, President Monson would have been a EQP who made a name for himself by successfully rounding up enough people to help people move in the ward; that got called out of the blue to be a Stake President, only to have a bunch of conveniently scheduled extended family vacations that included Sundays so he didn't actually do much stake presidency stuff and then suddenly become prophet as a reward.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I don't know how he can be over his head after more than 40 years as an apostle and heaven knows how many years in the First Presidency.

If we were making Obama analogies here, President Monson would have been a EQP who made a name for himself by successfully rounding up enough people to help people move in the ward; that got called out of the blue to be a Stake President, only to have a bunch of conveniently scheduled extended family vacations that included Sundays so he didn't actually do much stake presidency stuff and then suddenly become prophet as a reward.

No that sounds more like George W. Bush with a round of nepotistic coat tail riding thrown in.

[RobinFinderson]

I don't know how he can be over his head after more than 40 years as an apostle and heaven knows how many years in the First Presidency.

If we were making Obama analogies here, President Monson would have been a EQP who made a name for himself by successfully rounding up enough people to help people move in the ward; that got called out of the blue to be a Stake President, only to have a bunch of conveniently scheduled extended family vacations that included Sundays so he didn't actually do much stake presidency stuff and then suddenly become prophet as a reward.

If the story of President Obama is the story of a favorite local son being hurried up the ladder of success faster than what his actual accomplishments merit, to an outsider looking at President Monson's bio, that description would look pretty apt.

[Indy Coug]

If the story of President Obama is the story of a favorite local son being hurried up the ladder of success faster than what his actual accomplishments merit, to an outsider looking at President Monson's bio, that description would look pretty apt.

If it took 40 years of service in the Senate before Obama got elected, you might have a point.

[RobinFinderson]

If it took 40 years of service in the Senate before Obama got elected, you might have a point.

Age 22, Bishop
Age 27, Stake Presidency
Age 32, Mission President
Age 36, Apostle

That is the resume of a favorite son.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have always been a big TSM fan. That being said, I am quite deflated about how things have gone thus far with him at the helm.

[Indy Coug]

Age 22, Bishop
Age 27, Stake Presidency
Age 32, Mission President
Age 36, Apostle
Age 58, Counselor in First Presidency [after 22 years of experience as an Apostle]
Age 81, Prophet [after 23 years of experience as a FP counselor]

That is the resume of a leader with a vast amount of leadership experience

Agreed.

[RobinFinderson]

And again, I have no problem with President Monson. His voice and leadership just seem conspicuously absent from the debate in which the church that he leads is deeply invested. It all seems almost Shakespearean, where you have a weak monarch (Monson) with the next in line (Packer) signaling the kind of leadership he would exert as prophet. Then there is the young upstart (Uchtdorf) who is arguably showing better judgment in navigating these waters, yet seniority rules for leadership ascension will prevent him from ever exerting the influence over the whole church that the church seems to need right now.

[byu71]

Where is President Monson in all of this? These days it is all Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Packer. The fact that Uchtdorf had to make his recent statement at all is evidence of a couple of things. 1. The top brass is discussing this and it is a matter of utmost importance. 2. They are muddling their way through it.

It looks like President Monson isn't showing much leadership here, but I guess that it should be expected that in any group of men that size, only a few will be real leaders. I have no disdain for President Monson at all, but he doesn't seem like a very compelling figure, and as the conservatives like to say about Obama, he seems like a man in over his head.

If they are indeed grappling with the issue, it is best that President Monson stays out of it until the grappling has ended.

Perhaps you forget. To many, he is the Prophet of God. When he speaks, whether it be an opinion or not, many many think he is speaking for God. He just can't be throwing opinions out there as others can.

[Moliere]

Age 22, Bishop
Age 27, Stake Presidency
Age 32, Mission President
Age 36, Apostle

That is the resume of a favorite son.

If he is lacking anything, it is more experience outside of the church. If he is overflowing with anything, it is love for the lonely and downtrodden...well downtrodden not including the gays I guess.

But seriously, the guy is following GBH, who I'll admit was a leader that impacted people inside and outside of the church. When GBH died, I had some catholic friends express to me their love for him. One of them even said she didn't really like the "next prophet guy" (who was TSM).