Has the Foyer ever changed you?

[Pheidippides]

You tell me. It's in the scriptures. Some are given to have faith/believe. Surely this squares with your own experience? It does with mine. I marvel at how profoundly some people belieove and how, for others, there is nothing but skepticism. As Mormons we all easily accept the idea that we come to this life to learn and deal with challenges and those differ from person to person. We know God will allow for those differences when we are judged. My guess is this difference in ability to believe is just one of those for which He will account.

I think of that scripture often. I was not given the gift to believe. I am a constant skeptic. I am fine with that.


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[YOhio]

I don't know that it changed me. However, for once in my life, I felt like I had a place where I could express my own personal struggles and doubts concerning faith and religion without being openly mocked or ridiculed.

Early on in my time here on CUF, I made some pretty revealing posts. In a way, those posts were like a release valve on a pressure cooker. I was able to express and say things that I had felt for a long, long time.

I know there were those that were probably saddened by my comments. Others expressed appreciation. Some said nothing.

However, the importance that I found was the internal peace that came with hearing me say those words (in this case, post them in typed format). It was a huge relief. Almost like confessing an long held secret indiscretion from the bishop as a teenager.

While I don't necessarily express all my thoughts in church or around family or friends, I do feel more "true to myself" because I have for once shared them in a public forum.

Also, when I hear or experience something related to church that frustrates me, makes me uncomfortable or even angers me, I now realize that there are other people, maybe even in my ward, that feel very similarly even though they don't vocalize it. Many of you here are those people in your wards.

While I am by no means settled in my relationship with my faith or my church, I have found a lot of peace here through expressing my views, finally AND realizing that there are others that belong to this religion that have similar struggles.

Good post.

[cowboy]

I don't think the Foyer has changed who I am, but it has changed my perspective, and in some cases my attitude. The Foyer has forced me to find answers to difficult questions I may never have encountered, which is good, but I also have less tolerance for some people in the Church, and in my own ward, which is bad. I am glad when I read that folks like scottie keep one toe in the door because of the discourse here, but at the same time I realize that there are a lot of people who will not, or maybe cannot accept the unanswerable on faith, and that makes me sad. To be honest, as I have participated in the Foyer, it seems to me that more posters have drifted away from believing that the leaders are inspired than posters who have become more convinced that the leaders are inspired. As someone who believes they are, this troubles me, but I don't know where the cost-benefit of the Foyer balances out and it becomes a tool for bad more than good.

I guess the short answer is that the Foyer has matured me. I don't act differently becuase of it, but I may view things differently. I have come to realize (once again) that nothing is what we envision it, including the membership of the Church. Like PAC (thanks for the mention, btw) I appreciate the respectful discourse in the Foyer, and I hope that it can continue.

[Surfah]

The Foyer has shaken my testimony to the point I stopped surfing here. LA Ute is an ALUF? They're real? I cannot comprehend the very idea.

[myboynoah]

This is the part I struggle with.

My MIL treat Church activities, temple attendance, Sunday meetings, etc. the way I do Utah football games. She looks forward to them, is enthralled by them, wants to talk to other people about them, won't shut up about them, etc. It is genuinely a form of entertainment for her.

My dad, from everything I have ever seen, is a pretty intelligent guy. I know I've bruised him when I've openly questioned things the Church has done, like Prop 8, getting involved in alcohol laws in Utah, etc. He is one that always takes the Church's side on everything. From what he says, he has little to no doubt that everything the Church teaches is true.

Then there is me. I don't find Church entertaining like my MIL and I don't have this resolute faith to walk lock-step with everything that the Church says or does without questioning "why?"

Again, this leads me to this forum. I know there are some very good, intelligent folks that are LDS and hold on to ties with the church...whether it be hope, desperation, fear or social reasons. These people aren't like my dad or my MIL...they are a lot more like me.

That seems like a fairly harsh assessment of your MiL's approach to faith. Perhaps she is like many of us who come away fulfilled by participation, not entertained.

There seems to be so much either-or when it comes to faith. Either one is a closeted agnostic/atheist with a veneer of faithfulness for social reason or one is a true never-questioning believer. This doesn't ring true for the human experience. None of us is so simple in anything in life. Each is on his/her own faith journey. The Gospel provides a context and The Church provides a structure (imperfect as it is). We all choose when it comes to faith/belief even as we question. That is why we are here.

[Portland Ute]

That seems like a fairly harsh assessment of your MiL's approach to faith. Perhaps she is like many of us who come away fulfilled by participation, not entertained.

There seems to be so much either-or when it comes to faith. Either one is a closeted agnostic/atheist with a veneer of faithfulness for social reason or one is a true never-questioning believer. This doesn't ring true for the human experience. None of us is so simple in anything in life. Each is on his/her own faith journey. The Gospel provides a context and The Church provides a structure (imperfect as it is). We all choose when it comes to faith/belief even as we question. That is why we are here.

I know my MIL much better than you, I would assume. She flat out says he enjoys all of it. I'm not reading anything into it.

I never said that "entertainment" was her only reason for participation. Where did you read that?

I said it was very easy for her. She flat out says she finds participation entertaining....fun...bla bla bla. I have heard her say after going to conference at Temple Square: "Oh, it was so fun! It's so fun to be there with the choir and see all the prophets and apostles!" More power to her. I'm not deriding her at all.

My entire point was that for some people, participation is very easy. Not only do they find participation fulfilling or valuable, they do find it entertaining.

[CardiacCoug]

My entire point was that for some people, participation is very easy. Not only do they find participation fulfilling or valuable, they do find it entertaining.

Some people are just very "religious" in the sense that they enjoy religious events and activities, like your MIL.

I'm not religious in that sense, but I think religion and smart religious discussion is interesting.

Mormons aren't allowed to describe themselves as "not very religious" but I think that's the description that fits in a lot of cases.

[myboynoah]

I know my MIL much better than you, I would assume. She flat out says he enjoys all of it. I'm not reading anything into it.

I never said that "entertainment" was her only reason for participation. Where did you read that?

I said it was very easy for her. She flat out says she finds participation entertaining....fun...bla bla bla. I have heard her say after going to conference at Temple Square: "Oh, it was so fun! It's so fun to be there with the choir and see all the prophets and apostles!" More power to her. I'm not deriding her at all.

My entire point was that for some people, participation is very easy. Not only do they find participation fulfilling or valuable, they do find it entertaining.

I read it in your original post which emphasized how entertaining you said your MiL found church activities. You've done the same here.

Please forgive my assumptions. I don't think I've ever met anyone who would say that entertainment was their primary take away from LDS church activity. I have met some people (very few) that said LDS church participation was easy. I'm sure they were exagerating.

[Portland Ute]

I read it in your original post which emphasized how entertaining you said your MiL found church activities. You've done the same here.

Please forgive my assumptions. I don't think I've ever met anyone who would say that entertainment was their primary take away from LDS church activity. I have met some people (very few) that said LDS church participation was easy. I'm sure they were exagerating.

I never said her sole reason for participation was entertainment. I said, amongst other things, she finds participation to be a form of entertainment.

I'll tell you what, I'm loading up the car with my family to go spend the weekend with her. I'm offering you this exclusive opportunity to take my place and find out for yourself.

[jay santos]

Information available and discussed on the internet has definitely changed me. The religion forum here and on CG is part of that, either for kick starting a study on a subject or for the opportunity to kick ideas around with others (that I'd normally stuff).

The beliefs I have about the restoration and the church today are completely different than what they were 15 years ago.

[Goatnapper'96]

I like the foyer both here and on CG. I enjoy the perspectives, it has to change us to read us such deep perspectives on something so vitally important and influential in our lives. It makes me think. I don't think it has me any more or less entrenched in my personal faith, but I enjoy seeing where others stand and thinking about their challenges.

I also knew SeattleUte was an asshole before and this has only reinforced that burning in my bosom!

[Surfah]

The Foyer is great. I actually like reading the different perspectives and judging all of you.

[UtahDan]

The Foyer is great. I actually like reading the different perspectives and judging all of you.

I have long felt that your avatar was judging me. He just looks judgmental.

[Surfah]

I have long felt that your avatar was judging me. He just looks judgmental.

Barney!