Has the Foyer ever changed you?

[scottie]

Has CB ever changed you?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Not so fast, bubbalooey. I think he said CG, which is Waters' place.

Anything to which we devote time changes us.

Oops. Well I was ... uh ... talking about those of us who were contributors on CG.

[Jarid in Cedar]

CUF has helped me discover who I am. For many years, I knew who I was not, but didn't look much to see who I was. I needed a place like CUF 10-12 years ago. As Scottie said, it would have been nice to have a place to talk about the dirty laundry with people who were not church bashers or trying to bash you down for your doubt.

I made the decision to leave the church 8 years ago. At that time, I didn't know what I believed in religiously, but I was 100% sure that I did not belief in the LDS Church. I wandered through the next 7 years in that state. I did not discuss religion in my marriage, family, or with friends because I was tired of the conflict.

When I first come to CUF, I purposely tried to avoid the foyer, simply because I expected it to be similar to the nasty discourse that I had experienced at the time of apostasy. That probably lasted about 10 days . I entered into this thread Polygamy Justification. I initially entered with and expected an antagonistic/adversarial environment. I was surprised and challenged. People who were firmly entrenched in the church were not trying to beat me down with "You are WRONG! You are DELUDED! You are FAITHLESS". Instead I was asked in a way,"Well what do you believe". I was at that point hooked to this site.

Over time, I was able to learn much more about myself, and to challenge what I thought were my belief's and to develop a structure of who I am spiritually and what my religious structure currently encompases. Learning this about myself was something that I needed to do. It has helped me with my marriage. I has helped me overcome some real crises in my life.

I can easily say that this site, and the foyer specifically, has not changed me as much as it has facilitated and allowed me to discover myself.

[CardiacCoug]

The Forum is great.

It has definitely helped me be more comfortable in my beliefs and more comfortable at Church (echoing Scottie's thoughts). It's given me some good practice in figuring out how to be honest about tricky issues in Mormonism without offending true believer Mormons -- and I have been better at doing that in the real world.

[Jeff Lebowski]

While I'm particularly grateful for the stalwart contributions of pelagius, cowboy, KatyLied, LAU and several others, I also appreciate those of the respectful nonbelievers. I was amused by the various comments on CB the past couple of days about the apparently faux intellectual and highly critical approach taken by many here. Even if it did nothing else, I'd be thankful that the approach serves as a kind of No Pest Strip warding off those with a more dogmatic view and bristling defensiveness on matters of faith. Keep 'em out of here. But the critics provide another benefit to me as well....

As I've mentioned before, I think occasionally of C.S. Lewis's (I think it was him) observation that exposing one's faith to the critical views of nonbelievers is like taking one's cherished furniture out from the dim living room into the bright sunlight. There, perhaps for the first time, one sees the faded material, the discolorations and areas of wear and tear that one hadn't considered before. Until that moment, the sofa had just been a source of warmth and comfort. Having seen the flaws or weaknesses, one needs to do something. One might be tempted to toss the sofa altogether, or instead work to fix the flaws, strengthening and beautifying it a bit. The negative comments and views typically cause me to take the latter approach.

On a lighter, more wicked note, I can't say if I've been changed for the better, but because I knew CUF, I've been changed for good.

Damn. That's beautiful. I am going to use that someday and will probably forget to give you or C.S. Lewis credit.

[CardiacCoug]

Damn. That's beautiful. I am going to use that someday and will probably forget to give you or C.S. Lewis credit.

I agree -- I love that furniture analogy. Much better than "not throwing out the baby with the bathwater," which is the cliche/analogy that I have usually thought of in that context.

[SoonerCoug]

I came to an interesting realization the other day while reading my childhood journal.

First of all, I started reading the BOM at about age 7 or 8. Made it through the beginning of 1st Nephi and got creeped out about Laban being murdered--quit reading after that. Secondly, I openly proclaimed that "no one can really know anything about God" at age 15.

So somewhere between age 8 and 15 I became a Mormon agnostic. I thought that was interesting. I always thought my agnosticism arose around the time of my mission, but maybe I was just born agnostic. Maybe being an agnostic is innate for some people--kind of like having a gift of the spirit.

[wally]

While I'm particularly grateful for the stalwart contributions of pelagius, cowboy, KatyLied, LAU and several others, I also appreciate those of the respectful nonbelievers. I was amused by the various comments on CB the past couple of days about the apparently faux intellectual and highly critical approach taken by many here. Even if it did nothing else, I'd be thankful that the approach serves as a kind of No Pest Strip warding off those with a more dogmatic view and bristling defensiveness on matters of faith. Keep 'em out of here. But the critics provide another benefit to me as well....

As I've mentioned before, I think occasionally of C.S. Lewis's (I think it was him) observation that exposing one's faith to the critical views of nonbelievers is like taking one's cherished furniture out from the dim living room into the bright sunlight. There, perhaps for the first time, one sees the faded material, the discolorations and areas of wear and tear that one hadn't considered before. Until that moment, the sofa had just been a source of warmth and comfort. Having seen the flaws or weaknesses, one needs to do something. One might be tempted to toss the sofa altogether, or instead work to fix the flaws, strengthening and beautifying it a bit. The negative comments and views typically cause me to take the latter approach.

On a lighter, more wicked note, I can't say if I've been changed for the better, but because I knew CUF, I've been changed for good.

Great response. Thank you.

[creekster]

Maybe being an agnostic is innate for some people--kind of like having a gift of the spirit.

I am not sure I would go quite this far, but I have no doubt the general idea is true, and that holds if you believe in God or not (IOW, we are wired on that spectrum somewhere whether it be gifts of the spirit or genes).

[Portland Ute]

I am not sure I would go quite this far, but I have no doubt the general idea is true, and that holds if you believe in God or not (IOW, we are wired on that spectrum somewhere whether it be gifts of the spirit or genes).

Why would God wire some of us to believe in him and others not? That seems like a HUGE unfair advantage.

It would seem like those that are gifted to believe are given an huge, instant, lasting advantage right out of the chute.

[SoonerCoug]

Why would God wire some of us to believe in him and others not? That seems like a HUGE unfair advantage.

It would seem like those that are gifted to believe are given an huge, instant, lasting advantage right out of the chute.

Why would God wire some men to prefer sex with men instead of with women? The answer is that God didn't do it. Nature did it.

[wally]

CUF has helped me discover who I am. For many years, I knew who I was not, but didn't look much to see who I was. I needed a place like CUF 10-12 years ago. As Scottie said, it would have been nice to have a place to talk about the dirty laundry with people who were not church bashers or trying to bash you down for your doubt.

I made the decision to leave the church 8 years ago. At that time, I didn't know what I believed in religiously, but I was 100% sure that I did not belief in the LDS Church. I wandered through the next 7 years in that state. I did not discuss religion in my marriage, family, or with friends because I was tired of the conflict.

When I first come to CUF, I purposely tried to avoid the foyer, simply because I expected it to be similar to the nasty discourse that I had experienced at the time of apostasy. That probably lasted about 10 days . I entered into this thread Polygamy Justification. I initially entered with and expected an antagonistic/adversarial environment. I was surprised and challenged. People who were firmly entrenched in the church were not trying to beat me down with "You are WRONG! You are DELUDED! You are FAITHLESS". Instead I was asked in a way,"Well what do you believe". I was at that point hooked to this site.

Over time, I was able to learn much more about myself, and to challenge what I thought were my belief's and to develop a structure of who I am spiritually and what my religious structure currently encompases. Learning this about myself was something that I needed to do. It has helped me with my marriage. I has helped me overcome some real crises in my life.

I can easily say that this site, and the foyer specifically, has not changed me as much as it has facilitated and allowed me to discover myself.

Another great response.

Recently some family friends decide to leave the church. It is interesting to see how active church members react to someone leaving. I appreciate your honest and sincere thoughts.

[ERCougar]

Why would God wire some men to prefer sex with men instead of with women? The answer is that God didn't do it. Nature did it.

I wonder how many of these kinds of answers religion can withstand. We keep taking God out of the equation, to the point where if we believe in a god, it's a very lazy and disinterested one.

[UtahDan]

You guys need to adjust your Tic-O-Meters.

I agree, I'm sure he was kidding.

[wally]

I came to an interesting realization the other day while reading my childhood journal.

First of all, I started reading the BOM at about age 7 or 8. Made it through the beginning of 1st Nephi and got creeped out about Laban being murdered--quit reading after that. Secondly, I openly proclaimed that "no one can really know anything about God" at age 15.

So somewhere between age 8 and 15 I became a Mormon agnostic. I thought that was interesting. I always thought my agnosticism arose around the time of my mission, but maybe I was just born agnostic. Maybe being an agnostic is innate for some people--kind of like having a gift of the spirit.

Interesting. I was not that deep-thinking at that age.

I think that my relationship with own father greatly influenced my notion of what a heavenly father must be like.