Marlin Jensen apologizes for Prop 8...

[woot]

You are free to do that if you choose.

Thanks.

[pellegrino]

Well, I think it is definitely a positive step.

I agree with this, any GA that opens their mouth on a subject has to know that there is a possibility that what they said will be posted on the internet within minutes after they said it. The question that I have is how legit is the source. Are there multiple sources that can verify that Jensen actually said what is reported in the link.

[doctorcoug]

So..."I'm sorry" isn't an apology? Since when?

When I say, "I'm sorry for your loss" to a patient, I'm not apologizing for anything I did, AT ALL. I am sorry for the situation and the pains that have happened.

Sounds like the same thing. He is sorry that people have to go through this mess in life. But, he didn't apologize for the church getting involved.

[pellegrino]

When I say, "I'm sorry for your loss" to a patient, I'm not apologizing for anything I did, AT ALL. I am sorry for the situation and the pains that have happened.

Sounds like the same thing. He is sorry that people have to go through this mess in life. But, he didn't apologize for the church getting involved.

weak, very weak.

[doctorcoug]

weak, very weak.

Bullshit.

An apology is an admission of wrongful doing. Offering condolences is just that. I offer condolences everyday, but I've never offered an apology in my profession.

When I read the above, it sounded like he was offering condolences.

[grapevine]

Marlin came to our Stake Conference and talked with lawyers on tovacoo suits earlier. He quoted conspiracy in D and C and said that the prophets speak for the future talking about wow, DOM's family values talk, ETB's Book of Mormon and mentioned prop 8 said we follow the prophet. He was sympathetic to those with same gender attraction he worked with many and was about in tears. Said we follow the prophet opposing it.

As long as people don't act on there attraction they will be ok and his response was to support prophet.

[Indy Coug]

weak, very weak.

Hardly. doctorcoug is 100% spot on with his point. If you think that nth hand account of Elder Jensen's "sorry" is a specific admission that the LDS Church was wrong for its involvement with Prop 8, you are straining beyond all reason to make that connection.

[UtahDan]

Hardly. doctorcoug is 100% spot on with his point. If you think that nth hand account of Elder Jensen's "sorry" is a specific admission that the LDS Church was wrong for its involvement with Prop 8, you are straining beyond all reason to make that connection.

In this vein, to the extent I have the authority to do it, I would like to say I am sorry for slavery. And by that I mean I'm sorry if it hurt anyone's feelings.

[woot]

Hardly. doctorcoug is 100% spot on with his point. If you think that nth hand account of Elder Jensen's "sorry" is a specific admission that the LDS Church was wrong for its involvement with Prop 8, you are straining beyond all reason to make that connection.

Agreed, but it's funny how you seem to think this is a good thing.

[Indy Coug]

Agreed, but it's funny how you seem to think this is a good thing.

Did I say it was either good or bad? But since I guess you're all tuned in to exactly what Elder Jensen meant, you're able to extend that ESP a little further.

[Indy Coug]

In this vein, to the extent I have the authority to do it, I would like to say I am sorry for slavery. And by that I mean I'm sorry if it hurt anyone's feelings.

To the extent the LDS church can express regret about MMM, they have. It doesn't mean that Brigham Young ordered it.

[woot]

Did I say it was either good or bad? But since I guess you're all tuned in to exactly what Elder Jensen meant, you're able to extend that ESP a little further.

You might want to check the thread, as you're swinging at ghosts here.

[CardiacCoug]

Hardly. doctorcoug is 100% spot on with his point. If you think that nth hand account of Elder Jensen's "sorry" is a specific admission that the LDS Church was wrong for its involvement with Prop 8, you are straining beyond all reason to make that connection.

Unfortunately, Indy and doctorcoug are correct.

The Church is only sorry that some people who were actually divinely created with a perfectly normal attraction only to people of the opposite gender have chosen to pervertedly act like they are attracted to those of the same gender.

It is a sad and a sorry situation that there are such sick and twisted, so-called "homosexual" people in the world. That is what they are sorry about.

[UtahDan]

To the extent the LDS church can express regret about MMM, they have. It doesn't mean that Brigham Young ordered it.

Look I actually think there is probably more nuance to what the man thinks than what has been reported he said. I'm just trying to say that your speculation about whether there is and what it is isn't any better than anyone else's. Maybe he was quoted out of context. Maybe he still thinks it was as good idea but feels compassion for those who were hurt in any sense. Maybe he genuinely regrets our involvement. We just don't know. The idea that it was what it appeared to be is not silly, nor is your suggestion that it might not be exactly what it appears.

[woot]

Look I actually think there is probably more nuance to what the man thinks than what has been reported he said. I'm just trying to say that your speculation about whether there is and what it is isn't any better than anyone else's. Maybe he was quoted out of context. Maybe he still thinks it was as good idea but feels compassion for those who were hurt in any sense. Maybe he genuinely regrets our involvement. We just don't know. The idea that it was what it appeared to be is not silly, nor is your suggestion that it might not be exactly what it appears.

The argument, I think, is that it is not obvious "what it appears to be." To me, it's completely ambiguous. What I know of Jensen makes me want to believe that he was apologizing on the behalf of the church for its involvement, but my experience with the institutional control of the church suggests it likely to have been nothing more than a sincere apology for the hardships the church has caused without any accompanying regret for any of the actions that caused them. I guarantee that it will be spun that way if any higher-ups address it.