Myths about Joseph Smith's martyrdom

[cowboy]

Nope. You could roll an entire site with ground penetrating radar first, and you couldn't convince a driller not to walk the site with his divining rods (they call them witching rods) before he stuck his auger in the ground. It's just what they do (and it actually seems to work for them).

Witching works for flowing, underground water. I do it all the time and I'm not kidding.

[Pheidippides]

Witching works for flowing, underground water. I do it all the time and I'm not kidding.

I am seriously very interested to hear all about this.

[TripletDaddy]

Me, too. 'Boy, what's the process? I know nothing about this so please dumb it down for me.

[Commando]

Nonsense!

[Solon]

Witching works for flowing, underground water. I do it all the time and I'm not kidding.

i've done it too. Totally works. Surprised the hell out of me.

[SoonerCoug]

I know very little about the martyrdom. I've been to Carthage a couple of times. I've heard a variety of stories about it.

From my perspective, the single most important question surrounding the martyrdom is why the mob wanted Joseph dead in the first place. Who exactly were they? How many exactly where there? And how was it all perceived nationally?

[woot]

I'm surprised there's so much positivity here about dowsing. If it works as well as you say, you should design an experiment and publish the positive findings. That would be a first.

[TripletDaddy]

From my perspective, the single most important question surrounding the martyrdom is why the mob wanted Joseph dead in the first place. Who exactly were they? How many exactly where there? And how was it all perceived nationally?

Those all seem to be the single most important questions.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm surprised there's so much positivity here about dowsing. If it works as well as you say, you should design an experiment and publish the positive findings. That would be a first.

Utah State University did some controlled tests with dowsing a few years ago and debunked it. I will see if I can find a copy and link it.

[cowboy]

I am seriously very interested to hear all about this.

First, what I use it for. Our soils are heavy clay with a high pH, so we need to drain the water as much as possible from the fields or it will bring salts to the surface as it evaporates. To accomplish this, we have miles of underground drain lines, 6 to 12 feet deep, that run into open drains. Occasionally we will need to locate these lines as we dig through roads, fields, etc., and this is what the majority of my witching involves. I've used it to locate groundwater as well, but not as often.

The process is very simple. Take two brass brazing rods, about 3 feet long, and bend them into an L, the short end of the L being 6-8 inches long. Hold the short end of a rod in each hand with the long end pointing directly away from you so that the rods are parallel. Hold them loosely enough to let them rotate, and start walking. When you cross a water line or groundwater of any kind the rods will begin to turn. Walk to the point that the rods have turned 90 degrees and they are pointed perpendicular to the direction you are walking, and that's the point to start digging. I usually do it several times from different directions to confirm it.

i've done it too. Totally works. Surprised the hell out of me.

I would never have believed it had I not done it. For whatever reason, it works better for some people than others.

I'm surprised there's so much positivity here about dowsing. If it works as well as you say, you should design an experiment and publish the positive findings. That would be a first.

I've always wanted to know how it works, and why some people can do it and others can't. I have enough to do in my life so I'm not interested in a study, but I may video it one day just to show it working.

Utah State University did some controlled tests with dowsing a few years ago and debunked it. I will see if I can find a copy and link it.

All I can say is that I've found dozens of water points this way. At times the rods will be finding other groundwater, but I've never walked across a water line that the rods haven't turned. I know it's crazy, and as a science undergrad I can't believe it works, but it does.

[jay santos]

Why are we talking divining rods? The only relevance I understand has to do with Oliver's attempt at translating the BOM, but that wouldn't come into play into a book about Joseph Smith's martyrdom. What's the relevance?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why are we talking divining rods? The only relevance I understand has to do with Oliver's attempt at translating the BOM, but that wouldn't come into play into a book about Joseph Smith's martyrdom. What's the relevance?

Because it is interesting.

Cowboy, I know lots of farmers and ranchers that swear by it. Problem is, for some reason it never holds up when subjected to a controlled test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

A 1948 study tested 58 dowsers' ability to detect water. None of them was more reliable than chance.[16] A 1979 review examined many controlled studies of dowsing for water, and found that none of them showed better than chance results.[5] A 2006 study of grave dowsing in Iowa reviewed 14 published studies and determined that none of them correctly predicted the location of human burials, and simple scientific experiments demonstrated the fundamental principles commonly used to explain grave dowsing were incorrect.[17]

More recently a study[18] was undertaken in Kassel, Germany, under the direction of the Gesellschaft zur Wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung von Parawissenschaften (Society for the Scientific Investigation of the Parasciences). The three-day test of some 30 dowsers involved plastic pipes through which water flow could be controlled and directed. The pipes were buried 50 centimeters under a level field, the position of each marked on the surface with a colored strip. The dowsers had to tell whether water was running through each pipe. All the dowsers signed a statement agreeing this was a fair test of their abilities and that they expected a 100 percent success rate. However, the results were no better than chance.

[jay santos]

Because it is interesting.

Not trying to quash talk of it. Curious what the relation is to the book.

[cowboy]

Because it is interesting.

Cowboy, I know lots of farmers and ranchers that swear by it. Problem is, for some reason it never holds up when subjected to a controlled test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

I can believe that, because there really is no logical explanation for it. As long as it works for me, though, I'll keep doing it because it is the only way we can find lines without digging up entire fields.

[Topper]

Because it is interesting.

Cowboy, I know lots of farmers and ranchers that swear by it. Problem is, for some reason it never holds up when subjected to a controlled test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

Thanks for posting. I know many ranchers believe in dowsing. My second companion was a rancher and swore by it. Having had no experience with it previously, I was skeptical, but he was so convincing, it caused my to doubt my doubts.