Inoculation is Overrated

[pelagius]

I think you are on thin ice morally.

Nice, so what you mean is that I am a source of cognitive dissonance for you.

[SeattleUte]

Nice, so what you mean is that I am a source of cognitive dissonance for you.

You didn't even give me a chance to revise my post, though this part remained untouched.

[SeattleUte]

Nice, so what you mean is that I am a source of cognitive dissonance for you.

Cognitive dissonance is a term like post-Modernism that "intellectual Mormons" have hijacked to their own ends. I think my view, as I've summarized it above, is more paradoxically enobling of the Mormon canon.

[pelagius]

Cognitive dissonance is a term like post-Modernism that "intellectual Mormons" have hijacked to their own ends. I think my view, as I've summarized it above, is more paradoxically enobling of the Mormon canon.

Are you done revising yet?

[SeattleUte]

Are you done revising yet?

Would you mind if I corrected the spelling on paradoxical(l)y?

[pelagius]

Would you mind if I corrected the spelling on paradoxical(l)y?

Go for it ... I fixed it in the version I quoted as well. You're welcome.

[SeattleUte]

He assumes that the true guardian of our virtue is not our faith, but rather our bad luck with the ladies.

So that is your (parochial) understanding of "virtue?" The BYU Classics department has let you down.

[myboynoah]

I am going to regret asking this I think but given this how do you explain someone like me? I think I am towards the right tail of the distribution in terms of examining these issues but they haven't lost their virture for me (not to be presumptious but I think I would throw people like myboynoah, Creekster and many others in the same category as me).

I love when SU waxes eloquent on the state of Mormon believers today. I often imagine him checking back on The Church on a regular basis, sitting on the back row of the local meeting house to gauge opinions and views. Has it been flushed yet?

SU is correct in one sense. Learning of the warts does bring a loss of virtue, in that many of the idealized fables of the restoration give way to real, human frailty and struggle. JS Sr. was prone to imbibing too much? The Smiths were horrible money managers, losing their farm in Manchester? Mormons responded to the Missouri persecutions in kind, at least in some cases? Institutionalized racism survived all those years? There is no end to this because we are dealing with real people.

But then there is such beauty; evidence of the divine. I have yet to hear an earthly explanation of the BoM's origins that satisfies me. The book's internal and external consistency, its moving passages, its ability to convert people worldwide. Joseph's evolving vision and theology, and results. The movement of a people, in a very orderly fashion when compared to other endeavors of the time, across the continent to establish a society in the Rocky Mountains. Choosing local non-white leadership to guide The Church's expansion across the globe. The happiness we, as a family, gain from living the gospel.

In the end, SU's loss of virture ends up being faith-affirming because the humanity of it makes it that much more believable, more real.

I see us moving through an interesting time in Church history, brought on by the Internet. In response, I sense flexibility in responding to all the false, misleading, and true information that is easily available out there. I wonder how much is at the behest of Church leadership and how much is coming from the Mormon "street." Your father gave very good advice.

[pelagius]

I love when SU waxes eloquent on the state of Mormon believers today. I often imagine him checking back on The Church on a regular basis, sitting on the back row of the local meeting house to gauge opinions and views. Has it been flushed yet?

SU is correct in one sense. Learning of the warts does bring a loss of virtue, in that many of the idealized fables of the restoration give way to real, human frailty and struggle. JS Sr. was prone to imbibing too much? The Smiths were horrible money managers, losing their farm in Manchester? Mormons responded to the Missouri persecutions in kind, at least in some cases? Institutionalized racism survived all those years? There is no end to this because we are dealing with real people.

But then there is such beauty; evidence of the divine. I have yet to hear an earthly explanation of the BoM's origins that satisfies me. The book's internal and external consistency, its moving passages, its ability to convert people worldwide. Joseph's evolving vision and theology, and results. The movement of a people, in a very orderly fashion when compared to other endeavors of the time, across the continent to establish a society in the Rocky Mountains. Choosing local non-white leadership to guide The Church's expansion across the globe. The happiness we, as a family, gain from living the gospel.

In the end, SU's loss of virture ends up being faith-affirming because the humanity of it makes it that much more believable, more real.

I see us moving through an interesting time in Church history, brought on by the Internet. In response, I sense flexibility in responding to all the false, misleading, and true information that is easily available out there. I wonder how much is at the behest of Church leadership and how much is coming from the Mormon "street." Your father gave very good advice.

myboynoah, that's a really beautiful post.

[All-American]

So that is your (parochial) understanding of "virtue?" The BYU Classics department has let you down.

Correct. I am utterly unable to examine evidence or evaluate arguments that fall outsidecof the scope of church-approved context. In this they have not FAILED, mind you; instead, they have purchased my brain-washed allegiance forever. I do appreciate your attempts to liberate me, but I'm afraid the ink on the contract for my soul is already dry.

[SeattleUte]

In the end, SU's loss of virture

Was this double entendre deliberate?

[creekster]

Was this double entendre deliberate?

If not, it was accurate.

[FMCoug]

I think Pelagius' father's version of innoculation is what should be pursued. I do this with the YM in my lessons. There is no point to bringing up inconsistencies, etc. but just pointing out that as they grow and learn, stuff will come up. For example, in a lesson on sustaining the prophet, I pointed out that they were going to have times in their lives where they personally disagreed with what a church leader might say ... what are they going to do? How do you sustain the prophet in those cases?

[TripletDaddy]

SU is correct in one sense. Learning of the warts does bring a loss of virtue, in that many of the idealized fables of the restoration give way to real, human frailty and struggle. JS Sr. was prone to imbibing too much? The Smiths were horrible money managers, losing their farm in Manchester? Mormons responded to the Missouri persecutions in kind, at least in some cases? Institutionalized racism survived all those years? There is no end to this because we are dealing with real people.

But then there is such beauty; evidence of the divine. I have yet to hear an earthly explanation of the BoM's origins that satisfies me. The book's internal and external consistency, its moving passages, its ability to convert people worldwide. Joseph's evolving vision and theology, and results. The movement of a people, in a very orderly fashion when compared to other endeavors of the time, across the continent to establish a society in the Rocky Mountains. Choosing local non-white leadership to guide The Church's expansion across the globe. The happiness we, as a family, gain from living the gospel.

In the end, SU's loss of virture ends up being faith-affirming because the humanity of it makes it that much more believable, more real.

Amen, brother.

[RobinFinderson]

But then there is such beauty; evidence of the divine. I have yet to hear an earthly explanation of the BoM's origins that satisfies me. The book's internal and external consistency, its moving passages, its ability to convert people worldwide. Joseph's evolving vision and theology, and results. The movement of a people, in a very orderly fashion when compared to other endeavors of the time, across the continent to establish a society in the Rocky Mountains. Choosing local non-white leadership to guide The Church's expansion across the globe. The happiness we, as a family, gain from living the gospel.

On the contrary, considering this book is God's second most important tool in bringing about conversion (the first being the witness of the spirit to a receptive heart), I would think its INABILITY to convert people worldwide is either:

a). A bleak view of the state of humanity.
b). A bleak view of God's (and His servants') persuasive abilities.

The truth is supposed to be like a fire in the hearts of men. Then why does God's true gospel only smolder?