Originally posted by Eddie
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Immigration & Prop 8 from an Apostle
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“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Originally posted by LA Ute View PostSpeaking metahprically: If that horse ran fast and hard, it was only because the Church leadership was flogging it all the way."Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied
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Originally posted by wuapinmon View PostDude, he is a Special Witness and he said it in church!Last edited by LA Ute; 08-25-2010, 10:02 PM.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Originally posted by SteelBlue View PostThis might be the greatest mischaracterization of what actually happened that I have read.
Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostMaybe Elder Cook didn't get the Gettysburg memo.
Originally posted by LA Ute View PostSpeaking metahprically: If that horse ran fast and hard, it was only because the Church leadership was flogging it all the way.
Originally posted by LA Ute View PostI am questioning Eddie's impression of what E. Cook said, not what E. Cook said.
Again - I wasn't in Cali. I don't recall reading the letter or hearing it read over the pulpit. I didn't participate in any of the on-the-ground efforts to know what was being directed and who directed it. I'm just giving my impressions from 5-10 minutes out of a Q&A session.
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostMaybe Elder Cook didn't get the Gettysburg memo.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by Eddie View PostI have to admit, I wasn't interested enough to follow all of the Prop 8 stuff. What is the Gettysburg memo? This is the first I've heard of it. Yes - I suppose I have had my head in the sand a little.At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
-Berry Trammel, 12/3/10
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Originally posted by Donuthole View PostAllow me to help Robin out (he pays me for grammatical advice, so I feel obliged to clarify on his behalf). You're interpreting his sentence as if he said "the world and gay communities," when what Robin really meant to say was "the world and the gay community." It was a poorly-worded sentence on his part. Forgive him.
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Originally posted by Eddie View Post\
Anyway - I found this stuff interesting and figured some of you might as well."More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
-- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)
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This is just something that frustrates me. The AoF state that we will obey the laws of the land.
This to me just isn't within those teachings.
One of the reasons that sometimes I just don't care as much about the Church and the rules. If the Church is only going to apply and sustain the Laws as to how it will benefit them, I have no problem doing the same thing when it comes to the rules and Laws that the Church has established for me.
Quid pro quo.
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Originally posted by The_Tick View PostThis is just something that frustrates me. The AoF state that we will obey the laws of the land.
This to me just isn't within those teachings.
One of the reasons that sometimes I just don't care as much about the Church and the rules. If the Church is only going to apply and sustain the Laws as to how it will benefit them, I have no problem doing the same thing when it comes to the rules and Laws that the Church has established for me.
Quid pro quo.
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Originally posted by Eddie View PostA couple of Sundays ago we had Stake Conference. We were getting a new Stake Presidency, so we had an Apostle present - Quentin L. Cook. During the Priesthood Leadership session he took the last half of the meeting and openned it up for questions. He accompanied by the Ogden Mission President and a 70 who's name I never could figure out how to spell - and had them help answer some of the questions.
I was impressed when a couple of men had the guts to ask about immigration and Prop 8. And I wanted to share Elder Cook's response. He indicated that he shares responsibility for Public Relations - so I'm going to assume that he would have been involved when some of this went down and would know what he's talking about.
First - Immigration. An attorney asked about the church's position on this. Elder Cook basically said "The church has been about as clear as they can be" when it comes to immigration. He reiterated that the church has not taken a position on what should be done with the borders or what the process should be to gain citizenship. Simply that these decisions effect a lot of people - discussion should be held with civility and decisions made keeping in mind the need to be caring and thoughtful of others.
He also reiterated that the church has always taken the position that missionaries will teach the gospel to whoever wants to hear it wherever they may be. They may live in the area, be on vacation, and may be documented or not.
The Ogden mission president told a story of getting a call from a concerned citizen that the missionaries were about to baptize someone who was in the country illegally. His response to them was that the two missionaries who were going to baptize the family were also here illegally, so it was OK. He went on to tell them that if the prophet saw fit to call them to serve as missionaries, that was good enough for him.
On Prop 8: A man stood up and asked what the church's next move would be on Prop 8 in light of the dominant role that they took in the initial ballot initiative.
Elder Cook's first response is that he felt that characterizing the church's role in the ballot initiative as "dominant" was open for debate. He stated that other religions in the area worked to have it put on the ballot. Catholic Bishop Neiderhauer (currently in San Francisco, who was in SLC prior to that) wrote a letter to President Monson asking that the LDS church participate in support of the ballot initiative.
After some discussion, the First Presidency sent a letter in support of Prop 8, and the members responded. He didn't outright say this, but I got the impression that some of the members (and local leaders) responded just a little more strongly than what had been anticipated. I also got the impression that there may have been some disappointment in how the thing snowballed after that.
While I got the impression this was not a fight the LDS church was going to pursue, Elder Cook went on to say that the doctrine is very clear. Families are important. Marriage is between a man and a woman, etc. He followed that up with saying that those who live the gospel - regardless of their inclinations one way or another - will recieve all of the blessings of the gospel.
Anyway - I found this stuff interesting and figured some of you might as well.Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
"Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson
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Originally posted by The_Tick View PostThis is just something that frustrates me. The AoF state that we will obey the laws of the land.
This to me just isn't within those teachings.
One of the reasons that sometimes I just don't care as much about the Church and the rules. If the Church is only going to apply and sustain the Laws as to how it will benefit them, I have no problem doing the same thing when it comes to the rules and Laws that the Church has established for me.
Quid pro quo.Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
"Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson
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Originally posted by Indy Coug View PostWhat specifically are you referring to here?
The fact that the Church call people that are in the country illegally on missions is bothersome.
They are breaking the law.
I almost didn't get to go because I messed around with girls. My Stake President made me wait 3 months after my first interview with him because my "relationship" with my youngest brother wasn't in accordance to the gospel. (We didn't like each other and fist fought frequently.)
So I had to patch shit up with him and wait 3 months for my 2nd interview.
Then...the Church wasn't going to let me serve a mission because I was too fat.
So illegals getting to serve is bullshit.
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Originally posted by The_Tick View PostMy dislike for those that abuse immigration is well documented on here.
The fact that the Church call people that are in the country illegally on missions is bothersome.
They are breaking the law.
I almost didn't get to go because I messed around with girls. My Stake President made me wait 3 months after my first interview with him because my "relationship" with my youngest brother wasn't in accordance to the gospel. (We didn't like each other and fist fought frequently.)
So I had to patch shit up with him and wait 3 months for my 2nd interview.
Then...the Church wasn't going to let me serve a mission because I was too fat.
So illegals getting to serve is bullshit.
So just exactly how anal do you want the church to be about being law-abiding? If they clamp down on legal status, what else should they start looking at that they've been conveniently ignoring for awhile?
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