I learned in church today

[SCcoug]

Our SS lesson today was anything but boring. Topic was the United Order/Law of Consecration and we had a roomful of well-known Utah conservative political leaders. It is fascinating to see how people dance around and wrestle with the topic of divine socialism. I thought the discussion was reasonable tame overall but there were a few political comments. Finally, a sister in the back raised her hand and chewed everyone out for being so negative about the topic and not being Christlike. It was an incredible self-righteous rebuke. By this time the poor teacher was frazzled and ended the class early even though there were lots of hands being raised.

I too find it interesting. Seems like the two thoughts that get made are "we choose to live the LoC (on penalty of eternal punishment)" and "it will be administered by inspired priesthood leaders not corruptible elected representatives so it will be fine". I don't see such distinctions as much of a difference.

[Moliere]

“What I have received from the Lord, I have received by Joseph Smith” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [1941], 458). (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History: Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, Lesson 13: “This Generation Shall Have My Word through You”)

Not sure I'd agree with this quote

[All-American]

Not sure I'd agree with this quote

What do you think he received from the Lord that he didn't receive by Joseph Smith?

[Uncle Ted]

Our SS lesson today was anything but boring. Topic was the United Order/Law of Consecration and we had a roomful of well-known Utah conservative political leaders. It is fascinating to see how people dance around and wrestle with the topic of divine socialism. I thought the discussion was reasonable tame overall but there were a few political comments. Finally, a sister in the back raised her hand and chewed everyone out for being so negative about the topic and not being Christlike. It was an incredible self-righteous rebuke. By this time the poor teacher was frazzled and ended the class early even though there were lots of hands being raised.

As explained by our sunday school teacher the United Order/Law of Consecration is like social security that one can opt out of. I am all for divine social security.

[Jeff Lebowski]

As explained by our sunday school teacher the United Order/Law of Consecration is like social security that one can opt out of. I am all for divine social security.

I too find it interesting. Seems like the two thoughts that get made are "we choose to live the LoC (on penalty of eternal punishment)" and "it will be administered by inspired priesthood leaders not corruptible elected representatives so it will be fine". I don't see such distinctions as much of a difference.

This is why this topic is so interesting. Members have to wrestle with multiple uncomfortable issues:

1) The whole concept of the United Order runs counter to conventional LDS wisdom regarding capitalism vs. socialism. As SCcoug points out, there is precious little difference between the United Order and socialism. We like to think that the "voluntarily giving" part makes all the difference in the world, but that's a copout. It's a form of socialism.

2) It failed miserably. I think most saints are happy that is in our past (I don't see any push to bring it back), but we still have to reconcile that God revealed his economic order for the last days and it didn't work at all.

[myboynoah]

This is why this topic is so interesting. Members have to wrestle with multiple uncomfortable issues:

1) The whole concept of the United Order runs counter to conventional LDS wisdom regarding capitalism vs. socialism. As SCcoug points out, there is precious little difference between the United Order and socialism. We like to think that the "voluntarily giving" part makes all the difference in the world, but that's a copout. It's a form of socialism.

2) It failed miserably. I think most saints are happy that is in our past (I don't see any push to bring it back), but we still have to reconcile that God revealed his economic order for the last days and it didn't work at all.

Of course it didn't work. I'm too selfish. I admit it.

[creekster]

I think it is interesting that some of you discussed the United Order. That was not in the manual. The manual was about the Law of Consecration. Which does present some interesting questions, especially given that we members are living under that law now. Although as to JL's two points, the first point is a little tricky. Especially given that as originally revealed a person choosing to leave the system did NOT get his property back. But the second point isn't so hard to figure; Its all MBN's (and those like him) fault. Is it really hard to believe that this is how Go would want us to live? Seems pretty likely to me.

[Pheidippides]

I think it is interesting that some of you discussed the United Order. That was not in the manual. The manual was about the Law of Consecration. Which does present some interesting questions, especially given that we members are living under that law now. Although as to JL's two points, the first point is a little tricky. Especially given that as originally revealed a person choosing to leave the system did NOT get his property back. But the second point isn't so hard to figure; Its all MBN's (and those like him) fault. Is it really hard to believe that this is how Go would want us to live? Seems pretty likely to me.

The manual, by its own terms, contains "suggestions for lesson development". And since the manual is horrible (my own opinion) it's not surprising that people didn't use it. I won't be.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think it is interesting that some of you discussed the United Order. That was not in the manual. The manual was about the Law of Consecration. Which does present some interesting questions, especially given that we members are living under that law now. Although as to JL's two points, the first point is a little tricky. Especially given that as originally revealed a person choosing to leave the system did NOT get his property back. But the second point isn't so hard to figure; Its all MBN's (and those like him) fault. Is it really hard to believe that this is how Go would want us to live? Seems pretty likely to me.

Commie.

[clackamascoug]

The Bishop blessed the Sacrament today. Next to him was his nephew, "Jason." The Bishop's sister had Jason without the benefit of being married. Through the years she's struggled, and has moved in/out of the ward quite a few times. Each time they moved back to the security of "our ward" Jason's grown a little taller, and then they leave again after a few months. If ever a kid had an excuse to run wild and test his limits, it would be this kid, but he's just the opposite - he keeps his mom on track. Knowing his life story, and the struggles he's overcome, and listening to him bless the Sacrament today I was overcome by my feelings about the Atonement. With my head bowed, and a tear running down my cheek, my wife asked if I was OK. "Jason" was all I said, and she nodded and smiled.

[FMCoug]

A guy in our ward is in a stake presidency at BYU. He said of the 900 girls in the stake, 300 have gone on missions or have papers in progress.

[creekster]

The manual, by its own terms, contains "suggestions for lesson development". And since the manual is horrible (my own opinion) it's not surprising that people didn't use it. I won't be.

i taught this lesson today. I didnt use the manual at all, apart from framing the topic. We had what I considered to be an interesting discussion but we did not dive into the United Order. Plenty to talk about without doing so.


btw, I agree the manual is not worth much.

[myboynoah]

I think it is interesting that some of you discussed the United Order. That was not in the manual. The manual was about the Law of Consecration. Which does present some interesting questions, especially given that we members are living under that law now. Although as to JL's two points, the first point is a little tricky. Especially given that as originally revealed a person choosing to leave the system did NOT get his property back. But the second point isn't so hard to figure; Its all MBN's (and those like him) fault. Is it really hard to believe that this is how Go would want us to live? Seems pretty likely to me.

The first "R" is recognission. I'm on the path.

[Uncle Ted]

A guy in our ward is in a stake presidency at BYU. He said of the 900 girls in the stake, 300 have gone on missions or have papers in progress.

Only about 30 percent of LDS young men serve missions. If this trend continues then they may need to give the priesthood to the women (again).

[The Fourth Nephite]

Only about 30 percent of LDS young men serve missions. If this trend continues then they may need to give the priesthood to the women (again).

My wife, who is reading this over my shoulder, wants to know if women ever had the priesthood. Please respond.