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  • #31
    From: Arizona immigration law fallout harms LDS Church outreach

    José Corral was seriously considering joining the Mormon Church.

    For weeks, Corral, 45, a fourth-grade teacher, met with Mormon missionaries at his home in Laveen to read the Book of Mormon and prepare for his baptism. Corral, a Catholic and the father of two preteen daughters, was especially drawn to the church's commitment to family values.


    "I was really interested. I thought, you know, it is going to be really good for the kids," said Corral, a legal permanent resident from Mexico.

    Then, Corral said, he found out that state Sen. Russell Pearce, a Republican from Mesa and sponsor of Arizona's tough new immigration law, is a member of the church. Corral said he told the missionaries to stop coming because he considers the law to be anti-immigrant and anti-Hispanic.

    "I decided I did not want to expose my kids to a religion that has members that hate other people because they are different," Corral said.

    Corral is not alone. The law, which makes it a state crime to be in the country without proper immigration papers, has tarnished the Mormon Church's image among many Latinos, a huge group the church is aggressively trying to attract.

    Pearce, a devout Mormon, has been the driving force behind virtually every bill introduced in recent years aimed at clamping down on illegal immigrants. Mormon officials say Pearce does not speak for the church, which has not taken a stance on Arizona's law or the issue of immigration.

    Still, it has put the church on the defensive.

    Kenneth Patrick Smith, a Mesa lawyer and president of the Valencia Branch, a Spanish-speaking LDS congregation in Mesa, said missionaries from his church have had doors slammed in their faces since Arizona's new law was signed by Gov. Jan Brewer in April.

    "They say, 'Why would we want to hear anything from a religion that would do this to the Hispanic community?' " said Smith, who emphasized that he was speaking for himself, not the church. "It's a great disconnect because on one hand the missionaries are out there preaching brotherly love, kindness, charity, tolerance, faith, hope, etc., and then they see on TV a quote-unquote Mormon pushing this legislation that makes them not only . . . terrified but terrorized."

    Pearce has repeatedly said his efforts to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona and keep them from coming here is based on the Mormon Church's 13 Articles of Faith, which includes obeying the law.

    The law makes it a state crime to be in Arizona without proper immigration papers. It also requires police to ask a person's immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion" that the person is in the country illegally. Critics say it could lead to rampant racial profiling and civil-rights abuses by officers targeting Latinos based on appearance.

    Many Latinos who view the new law as unjust and discriminatory blame not only Pearce but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That is making it hard for Mormons to proselytize to the state's 1.8 million Latinos, whom the church views as key to future growth.

    Smith said he has already seen the effects of stepped-up immigration enforcement and fears more to come when the law takes effect July 29.

    "I deal with the aftermath of what happens when someone gets deported in the middle of the night or doesn't come home from work. I'm left to help with families and deal with the crying kids and their wives. It's devastating on these families when the dad doesn't come home," Smith said.

    Pearce did not return repeated telephone calls seeking comment.

    Kim Farah, a spokeswoman for the LDS headquarters in Salt Lake City, said in an e-mail that elected officials who are Mormons do not represent the position of the church. She said the church has also not taken a position on immigration, which is "clearly the province of government."

    "However, Church leaders have urged compassion and careful reflection when addressing immigration issues affecting millions of people," she said in the e-mail.

    Some Latino members, however, would like the church to do more.

    "I want the church to put a stop to him," said Celia Alejandra Alvarez Portugal, 30, a member of the LDS Aguila Ward in Phoenix. Alvarez, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, is in deportation proceedings after the landscaping business she worked for was raided last year by Maricopa County sheriff's deputies.

    Arizona has one of the largest Mormon populations of any state. There are 383,000 Mormons in Arizona, or nearly 6 percent of the population, according to the church.

    Proselytizing is a cornerstone of the Mormon faith. The church has trained Spanish-speaking missionaries to go out into neighborhoods to preach to Latinos and encourage them to join the church. The church does not keep records according to ethnicity. But the number of Spanish-speaking congregations in Arizona has grown from a handful a decade ago to 51 today.

    Smaller congregations are known as branches, and larger ones are called wards. Branches and wards are grouped geographically into stakes.

    Nora Castañeda, 46, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Hermosillo, Mexico, who has been a member of the LDS Church for 35 years, said several colleagues confronted her after the law passed.

    Castañeda, director of secondary-language development at Phoenix's Creighton School District, recalls one saying, "It's somebody from your church who did this." Another, according to Castañeda, said, "Your (Mormon) brother did this."

    She does not believe, however, that Pearce's anti-illegal-immigrant stance is in line with the Mormon faith, which, in addition to teaching obedience to the law, teaches compassion.

    "It is embarrassing to have to defend the church for the thoughts of one man," said Castañeda, a member of the Spanish-speaking Liahona Second Ward in Mesa.

    In addition to making it hard for the church to reach out to Latinos, the new law is also causing some new converts to leave, she said.

    "The husband of a woman (at her church) is not letting her go back to the church because he knows a Mormon made this law," Castañeda said.

    Juan Carlos Zazueta, a math teacher and member of the Liahona Second Ward, converted to the LDS Church when he was 11. He does not believe many longtime Latino members will leave the church because of Pearce.

    But he thinks as many as half of the Latino families in his church will leave the state because they have a greater chance of having a family member who is undocumented be deported under the new law.

    Jorge Pimienta, who oversees missionaries at the Valencia Branch, also expects many Latino families from his congregation to leave. He blames Pearce.

    "I don't know Russell Pearce. I don't know where he is coming from. All I know is that what he is doing is not what Jesus Christ taught," he said.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Slim View Post
      The obeying the law for law's sake thing is silly. When people (even Mormons) disagree with a law they often either break it or work to change it. Take, for example, the speed trap cameras that Arizona is now doing away with.

      People didn't like those speeding cameras catching them on their way to work so they decided to get rid of them (I think some contract expired and they decided not to renew it).

      It is the same thing with immigration in my opinion. If the only problem that people had with it was that they were doing things illegally then they would work to change the laws to make it easier to allow migrant laborers to come here and to be tracked/counted/taxed more easily. Instead they legally mandate racial profiling all in the name of "upholding the law".

      Why haven't they also renewed the traffic camera contracts and legislated stricter consequences for those who are caught on camera violating traffic laws?

      And yes I'm Mormon, I live in AZ, and I oppose this law.
      My good friend Abe disagrees with you:

      Originally posted by Abraham Lincoln
      Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution, never to violate in the least particular, the laws of the country; and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of seventy-six did to the support of the Declaration of Independence, so to the support of the Constitution and Laws, let every American pledge his life, his property, and his sacred honor;--let every man remember that to violate the law, is to trample on the blood of his father, and to tear the character of his own, and his children's liberty. Let reverence for the laws, be breathed by every American mother, to the lisping babe, that prattles on her lap--let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges; let it be written in Primers, spelling books, and in Almanacs;--let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation; and let the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the grave and the gay, of all sexes and tongues, and colors and conditions, sacrifice unceasingly upon its altars. . . .

      When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise, for the redress of which, no legal provisions have been made.--I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed. So also in unprovided cases. If such arise, let proper legal provisions be made for them with the least possible delay; but, till then, let them, if not too intolerable, be borne with.
      τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

      Comment


      • #33
        I realize that I am a sucky patriot, but I have a hard time understanding how if America is the new Zion that all of Christ's followers are going to flow to, why would anyone in that church not support anything besides fully open borders?
        Get confident, stupid
        -landpoke

        Comment


        • #34
          To reject the Church over the political positions of a legislator who is a member seems pretty short-sighted. Then again, for a Mormon legislator to mention his own religion as a basis for legislation is idiotic.
          “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
          ― W.H. Auden


          "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
          -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


          "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
          --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
            I realize that I am a sucky patriot, but I have a hard time understanding how if America is the new Zion that all of Christ's followers are going to flow to, why would anyone in that church not support anything besides fully open borders?
            What makes you think that Zion is really limited to the US borders?
            Everything in life is an approximation.

            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
              Acording to my LDS relatives in AZ (who support the law), Mormons are all over the map as to whether it's a good idea. Not surprisingly, the more Hispanic the family, the less thrilled they are with it. IMO, citing the 12th Article of Faith in support of such a law is cringe-inducing and sanctimonious.
              I think it is cringe inducing to cite it in support of any law. It was a statement made at a particular time in our history for a particular reason. If you think about it, it is nonsensical.

              "We have a very elaborate set of beliefs centered on Jesus Christ and his teachings. Along with this, God has commanded us that there are many things we should or should not do, with the caveat that if the political body where we live decides otherwise we will throw those commandments out the window."

              No one actually believes that. I know there are lots of ways to spin it, but at bottom I don't think an LDS person is under any imperative from the church to obey or not fight laws that are illegal, unjust, contrary to the gospel, etc.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                If we want to get all puffed about about "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law," then everyone saying that the 12th AoF justifies the Arizona law needs to give up their radar detectors and start scrupulously obeying the speed limit. And that's just for starters. Besides, I think it's pretty clear that AoF 12 refers to our own behavior, not making sure everyone else obeys, honors and sustains the law.

                Not that this type of sanctimony ticks me off or anything . . . .
                And stop fighting gay marriage where that is authorized by law.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by All-American View Post
                  My good friend Abe disagrees with you:
                  I dearly love Abe Lincoln, but there is some real irony in him promoting strict adherence to law.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    I dearly love Abe Lincoln, but there is some real irony in him promoting strict adherence to law.
                    I believe that Abe Lincoln also said:

                    "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."

                    Maybe Arizona's enforcement of the federal law will do some good in the end.
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                      I dearly love Abe Lincoln, but there is some real irony in him promoting strict adherence to law.
                      Strict construction, perhaps, would be ironic. He'd argue with you on the point of strict adherence, I think.
                      τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by UtahDan View Post
                        And stop fighting gay marriage where that is authorized by law.
                        Oh, brother.
                        “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                        ― W.H. Auden


                        "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                        -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                        "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                        --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Slim View Post
                          The obeying the law for law's sake thing is silly. When people (even Mormons) disagree with a law they often either break it or work to change it. Take, for example, the speed trap cameras that Arizona is now doing away with.

                          People didn't like those speeding cameras catching them on their way to work so they decided to get rid of them (I think some contract expired and they decided not to renew it).

                          It is the same thing with immigration in my opinion. If the only problem that people had with it was that they were doing things illegally then they would work to change the laws to make it easier to allow migrant laborers to come here and to be tracked/counted/taxed more easily. Instead they legally mandate racial profiling all in the name of "upholding the law".

                          Why haven't they also renewed the traffic camera contracts and legislated stricter consequences for those who are caught on camera violating traffic laws?

                          And yes I'm Mormon, I live in AZ, and I oppose this law.
                          This is the best comment I've seen on this issue. Nailed it.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Slim View Post
                            The obeying the law for law's sake thing is silly.
                            Wow, seems like a formula for chaos, unless of course you agree that if someone chooses to break the law, there is no problem in applying the proper punishment.

                            I do agree if they disagree they should work hard to change it or move to an area that doesn't have such law.

                            Comment

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