Where have all the Lamanites gone?

[BlueHair]

So what you are saying is that you either believe or don't and this will be a drop in the bucket of why you hold your stance.

I liked your comment a page or two back about the real issue being about the retention or support of perceived authority. I think this is what truly fuels any debate about mormonism. The gospel concepts are for the most part universal across Christendom. What is at stake in the religious debate is who gets to speak for God here on Earth.

This is why it's important to me. Christians are Christians for the most part. To me, if the prophet is just a guy that gathers and processes information like the rest of us, then he isn't really a prophet. If church is just about feeling good and living a life that is "good" by your personal definition, then any church or organization will do. Things like priesthood, ordinances, temples, families are forever, etc become nothing more than marketing tools to attract more members and make the existing members feel good. I don't dispute that those things are important, but for me, they don't merit the energy that it takes to be an active member. If President Monson IS a prophet and communicates directly with God and has real insight as to what God wants, then he is really important.

[fusnik]

Kind of a tangent but, did anyone's family adopt Lamanites? I was talking to my grandparents about this, (they took in multiple Lamanites) and my grandpa said it was the thing he regrets most in this life.

[Surfah]

Kind of a tangent but, did anyone's family adopt Lamanites? I was talking to my grandparents about this, (they took in multiple Lamanites) and my grandpa said it was the thing he regrets most in this life.

That's sad.

[beefytee]

Kind of a tangent but, did anyone's family adopt Lamanites? I was talking to my grandparents about this, (they took in multiple Lamanites) and my grandpa said it was the thing he regrets most in this life.

I had 2 foster brothers through the SWK program. The one was older and I don't remember him, but I remember the younger one. I was pretty young though and probably don't have much insight.

Although they've had problems, they didn't have any living at our house that I know of.

[Ma'ake]

I got into a back-and-forth with Daniel Peterson on this topic. He believes all "all or nearly all" Native Americans have literal Lehite heritage.

At the time Lehi & family arrived, there were indigenous people spread from Tierra del Fuego to Greenland, tribes buried deep in the Amazon, etc.

For "all or nearly all" current Native Americans to have Lehite DNA would require an impressive "hit & run" campaign from the Lehites from the time they arrived, dispersing DNA throughout the hemisphere. Tierra del Fuego & Greenland are nasty, inhospitable places that require a determined effort just to get to, let alone survive in. People in the Amazon have been living there for who knows how many thousand years, unperturbed from the outside.

These isolated populations are very unlikely to have had external DNA mixtures within the last 3000 years, let alone have *all* Native American, Innuit & Polynesian groups have a specific type of DNA intrusion, sufficient to have the DNA in nearly all members of the various groups, while simultaneously having no such DNA evidence remaining.

Daniel Peterson is a very bright man, but I'm stunned he could actually believe what he claims.

[SeattleUte]

I got into a back-and-forth with Daniel Peterson on this topic. He believes all "all or nearly all" Native Americans have literal Lehite heritage.

At the time Lehi & family arrived, there were indigenous people spread from Tierra del Fuego to Greenland, tribes buried deep in the Amazon, etc.

For "all or nearly all" current Native Americans to have Lehite DNA would require an impressive "hit & run" campaign from the Lehites from the time they arrived, dispersing DNA throughout the hemisphere. Tierra del Fuego & Greenland are nasty, inhospitable places that require a determined effort just to get to, let alone survive in. People in the Amazon have been living there for who knows how many thousand years, unperturbed from the outside.

These isolated populations are very unlikely to have had external DNA mixtures within the last 3000 years, let alone have *all* Native American, Innuit & Polynesian groups have a specific type of DNA intrusion, sufficient to have the DNA in nearly all members of the various groups, while simultaneously having no such DNA evidence remaining.

Daniel Peterson is a very bright man, but I'm stunned he could actually believe what he claims.

He's on the payroll. He has a mortgage to pay and he's doing his job.

I don't begrudge him a living. But I daresay the man has ZERO respect among peers in his field at universities outside BYU.

EDIT: I think they probably just totally ingore him.

[Ma'ake]

He's on the payroll. He has a mortgage to pay and he's doing his job.

I don't begrudge him a living. But I daresay the man has ZERO respect among peers in his field at universities outside BYU.

EDIT: I think they probably just totally ingore him.

I think maybe he took this stand years ago & feels like he can't back out now. He could bail out into the safer Limited Geography Theory, but he hasn't, hence my surprse. It allows even an IT guy like me to easily establish just how low the chances are he's right. Easy pickins.

Serious Y academics in some disciplines definitely are in a bind. How much do they profess their faith in public settings, get credit from those in admistrative positions, share their (I'm assuming) heartfelt thoughts & beliefs... and expose their academic career to serious ridicule? Or do they stay (more) safely in their offices, keep a low profile, and possibly get some encouragement/pressure to help "tow the company line"?

It does allow DP to be the intellectual heavy at FAIR symposiums, etc, and rail against the reaction shown by professional peers as liberal academic bias, if not religious persecution.

[Rosebud]

But if no one actually disagrees with my point, why does it matter how strongly I say it? Does anyone actually disagree with me? If I'm stridently arguing for the church's position, how is that any different from believers who do the same?

So strange... I really like it when people make their points strongly. It's interesting. I can't for the life of me figure out how woot's posts are any more inflammatory than the posts accusing him of being inflammatory. Discussing religion is so emotional.

Oh, did I say that too strongly?

[Rosebud]

I think maybe he took this stand years ago & feels like he can't back out now. He could bail out into the safer Limited Geography Theory, but he hasn't, hence my surprse. It allows even an IT guy like me to easily establish just how low the chances are he's right. Easy pickins.

Serious Y academics in some disciplines definitely are in a bind. How much do they profess their faith in public settings, get credit from those in admistrative positions, share their (I'm assuming) heartfelt thoughts & beliefs... and expose their academic career to serious ridicule? Or do they stay (more) safely in their offices, keep a low profile, and possibly get some encouragement/pressure to help "tow the company line"?

It does allow DP to be the intellectual heavy at FAIR symposiums, etc, and rail against the reaction shown by professional peers as liberal academic bias, if not religious persecution.

Welcome. Please visit Ellis Island and introduce yourself.

[jay santos]

I got into a back-and-forth with Daniel Peterson on this topic. He believes all "all or nearly all" Native Americans have literal Lehite heritage.

At the time Lehi & family arrived, there were indigenous people spread from Tierra del Fuego to Greenland, tribes buried deep in the Amazon, etc.

For "all or nearly all" current Native Americans to have Lehite DNA would require an impressive "hit & run" campaign from the Lehites from the time they arrived, dispersing DNA throughout the hemisphere. Tierra del Fuego & Greenland are nasty, inhospitable places that require a determined effort just to get to, let alone survive in. People in the Amazon have been living there for who knows how many thousand years, unperturbed from the outside.

These isolated populations are very unlikely to have had external DNA mixtures within the last 3000 years, let alone have *all* Native American, Innuit & Polynesian groups have a specific type of DNA intrusion, sufficient to have the DNA in nearly all members of the various groups, while simultaneously having no such DNA evidence remaining.

Daniel Peterson is a very bright man, but I'm stunned he could actually believe what he claims.

God bless you. If you've gone back and forth with Dan Peterson and still have your sanity, you're a remarkable person.

[UtahDan]

I think maybe he took this stand years ago & feels like he can't back out now. He could bail out into the safer Limited Geography Theory, but he hasn't, hence my surprse. It allows even an IT guy like me to easily establish just how low the chances are he's right. Easy pickins.

Serious Y academics in some disciplines definitely are in a bind. How much do they profess their faith in public settings, get credit from those in admistrative positions, share their (I'm assuming) heartfelt thoughts & beliefs... and expose their academic career to serious ridicule? Or do they stay (more) safely in their offices, keep a low profile, and possibly get some encouragement/pressure to help "tow the company line"?

It does allow DP to be the intellectual heavy at FAIR symposiums, etc, and rail against the reaction shown by professional peers as liberal academic bias, if not religious persecution.

How did you come to be talking to him in the first place? That part intrigues me.

[SeattleUte]

How did you come to be talking to him in the first place? That part intrigues me.

Anyone can talk to Dan Peterson. He's a bouncer on the Fair Boards. They don't ban you like CB. They have FARMS goons, including Peterson, who slink out and menace you.

[UtahDan]

Anyone can talk to Dan Peterson. He's a bouncer on the Fair Boards. They don't ban you like CB. They have FARMS goons, including Peterson, who slink out and menace you.

Lol. It sounds to me as though you have suffered some menacing. What to share?

[LA Ute]

Welcome. Please visit Ellis Island and introduce yourself.

I hope Ma'ake stays. He would be a terrific addition to this board. He is a great guy - hopelessly wrong about politics, of course - but a great guy and a Ute to boot!

[LA Ute]

Lol. It sounds to me as though you have suffered some menacing. What to share?

Being "menaced" by Dan Peterson must be what it's like to be menaced by Santa Claus.