Stupidly deleted post on CB re Unga, mission anecdote

[oxcoug]

Forgot that LRB link from Eagleton

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n20/terry-eagleton/lunging-flailing-mispunching

[John McClain]

Quisling alma mater hater.

:nana:

[SeattleUte]

I'm in.

The best take on Dawkins comes from Terry Eagelton, the grand intellect of British literary Marxism and himself a borderline atheist. But he shreds Dawkins pretensions on matters religious into tiny pieces and then pisses all over them.

From the London Review of Books. Here's the opening segment.

"Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology. Card-carrying rationalists like Dawkins, who is the nearest thing to a professional atheist we have had since Bertrand Russell, are in one sense the least well-equipped to understand what they castigate, since they don’t believe there is anything there to be understood, or at least anything worth understanding. This is why they invariably come up with vulgar caricatures of religious faith that would make a first-year theology student wince. The more they detest religion, the more ill-informed their criticisms of it tend to be."

I guess if Dawkins needed a job he'd fit right in at FARMS.

So what do you think of Auguste Rodin Mr. OxfordCoug? Purveyor of porn?

[oxcoug]

I guess if Dawkins needed a job he'd fit right in at FARMS.

So what do you think of Auguste Rodin Mr. OxfordCoug? Purveyor of porn?

Rodin's work was amazing. Just happens that I know the Director of BYU's MOA who was involved there he's actually a really remarkable guy with a very modern view of the world, not at all a puritan eager to eradicate images of naked lovers.

Campbell explanation of that whole episode was pretty straightforward: The exhibit was intended to be about the 'HANDS of Rodin' and the MOA didn't have plans for all of the pieces they hadn't expected and the decision to move them out was as much a logistical one as one aimed at protecting BYU students from the 'Handjobs of Rodin' (as one of my roomates at the time called them).

This is all recalled with more than a decade separating me from those conversations so it's a bit blurry but I remember Campbell telling me that some time in the aftermath.

Personally I don't see anything pornographic in his work at all. And since my Mom is a serious artist (margotschulzke.com ... yes a little plug there for Mom) I might have a slightly more developed appreciation of the distinction bt porn and art than the average BYU grad? Dunno.

[John McClain]

So what do you think of Auguste Rodin Mr. OxfordCoug? Purveyor of porn?

St. John the Baptist Preaching (SU's avatar) is not porn, nor are any of Rodin's sculptures. When in Calais, I enjoyed visiting The Burghers of Calais (all of whom were clothed). I understand however that Rodin did enjoy sketching erotica in his later years, FWIW.

[Katy Lied]

Quisling alma mater hater.

Godwin's Law strikes again.

[LA Ute]

I'm in.

The best take on Dawkins comes from Terry Eagelton, the grand intellect of British literary Marxism and himself a borderline atheist. But he shreds Dawkins pretensions on matters religious into tiny pieces and then pisses all over them.

From the London Review of Books. Here's the opening segment.

"Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology. Card-carrying rationalists like Dawkins, who is the nearest thing to a professional atheist we have had since Bertrand Russell, are in one sense the least well-equipped to understand what they castigate, since they don’t believe there is anything there to be understood, or at least anything worth understanding. This is why they invariably come up with vulgar caricatures of religious faith that would make a first-year theology student wince. The more they detest religion, the more ill-informed their criticisms of it tend to be."

Ouch. That one's going to leave a mark.

[UtahDan]

Sexaul morality has become the LDS Church's singular obsession. Just go to the "Foyer" section here. Even these progressive Mormons here are most interested in that aspect of their faith. It consumes everything, like chub taking up all the oxygen in a mountain lake till all the trout are dead. Gay marriage and porn blah blah blah.

Had the disgraced missionary gone on with his life in another community outside the LDS orbit no one would have cared about this part of his past. People's sex lives, especially decades ago, especially when they were teenagers, aren't a focus, aren't a cause of stigma certainly, certainly aren't an obsession. It might be an interesting anecdote that he got blackballed out of Mormonism for having sex on his mission, but no sane person would lose respect for him, especially considering it happened when he was 19 or 20. They would only lose respect for Mormonism. BIG DEAL. A 20 year old kid had sex before getting marriage. It's not very interesting to sane people; it's not a terrible thing to sane people (if the kids use a condom, that is).

Unga should get the hell out of Dodge and stay gone. God Speed Unga! Run!!

I think what you are saying is most true within a stone's throw on BYU. In that community it matters a lot. Once you go as far as SLC, very few care. I speak from experience on this.

[UtahDan]

Campbell explanation of that whole episode was pretty straightforward: The exhibit was intended to be about the 'HANDS of Rodin' and the MOA didn't have plans for all of the pieces they hadn't expected and the decision to move them out was as much a logistical one as one aimed at protecting BYU students from the 'Handjobs of Rodin' (as one of my roomates at the time called them).

I too hope you post some more ox.

I was at BYU this all went on and I don't recall that explanation. Nor does it pass the smell test IMO. Do you accept it?

EDIT: Its like saying you wanted to do an exhibit on the drawings on Michelangelo and were surprised when they shipped you the David and just decided not to show it.

[LA Ute]

oxcoug, I like your mom's work. (Lots of terrific western/Latin American subjects too). I am wondering what Katy Lied thinks.

[Viking]

For anyone here who cares.....

Because if it's not fit for CB it must be fit for CUF.
\
How much all of what has happened defines Harvey's legacy depends a lot on the fans. Of course it's unavoidable that this will be remembered as an unfortunate conclusion. But we can decide, as fans, to primarily focus on the Harvey Unga who slugged it out between the tackles for three long, hard-running years as our feature back and to assume the best about how he is moving forward with his personal life and resolve to focus our discussion on the good Harvey stuff.

Just a thought on approaching a difficult episode.

I'll say it again: Steve Myers is a nice guy but he is the ultimate zoobie.

I own www.cougarbored.com

I think I'll hand it over to atheistcoug...it will be the "failblog" of all things byu and utah, including stupid CB occurances

[Viking]

For achievement in the field of singular obsession, you are Babe Ruth.

PAC, i respect you. I have ridden with you (I think). But I disagree on this point.

There is an Honor Code that 18 year olds sign and reaffirm. When they "transgress", in many cases, they get kicked out. They suffer life changing detrimental impacts.

There is little mercy involved. There is no "atonement" involved. Justice only.

It's ridiculous and I endorse what SU is saying: if you are an LDS football player, don't go to BYU. You might drink a few beers, get freaky with someone, and since you're (a) drunk and (b) you grew up in Utah and have never had real sex ed, said betty gets preggers and you not only have to support a child, you are also now kicked out of school.

Now, 99% of Steve CB devotees will respond: "serves him right" (that's christlike), but it's just stupid

Have some mercy

[PaloAltoCougar]

PAC, i respect you. I have ridden with you (I think). But I disagree on this point.

No offense intended by me with the original comment, and none taken by yours. How about if I declare you Lou Gehrig?

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Had the disgraced missionary gone on with his life in another community outside the LDS orbit no one would have cared about this part of his past. People's sex lives, especially decades ago, especially when they were teenagers, aren't a focus, aren't a cause of stigma certainly, certainly aren't an obsession. It might be an interesting anecdote that he got blackballed out of Mormonism for having sex on his mission, but no sane person would lose respect for him, especially considering it happened when he was 19 or 20.

I can testify that this is true, I am still a pariah among church members I grew up with. And can honestly say that I worry about the day when my past becomes public knowledge in my present ward and if many will have a change of attitude towards me.

[Viking]

No offense intended by me with the original comment, and none taken by yours. How about if I declare you Lou Gehrig?

I think Mickey Mantle suits my personality better. But thank you for making sure to keep it within the Yanks.