Where is the Garden of Eden?

[ERCougar]

I like the Faulconer article, too. But I don't understand why he feels compelled to describe Adam and Eve, Abraham, the resurrection, etc. as "facts."

The only "fact" is that nobody knows whether or not any of these events happened and it seems extremely likely that none of them happened -- these events are to be understood as myths and allegories first and foremost, in my opinion.

Your interpretation (that all of these events are allegorical) certainly opens up some interesting perspectives, but leaves you with a mountain of statements from prophets to account for. At what point do you stop being Mormon? I'm not implying that that matters to you, but I think it matters to Faulconer as he writes something for public consumption.

[CardiacCoug]

Your interpretation (that all of these events are allegorical) certainly opens up some interesting perspectives, but leaves you with a mountain of statements from prophets to account for. At what point do you stop being Mormon? I'm not implying that that matters to you, but I think it matters to Faulconer as he writes something for public consumption.

Sure, Faulconer is a BYU Professor and as such is obligated to provide a faithful perspective. He is a truly good guy, by the way -- I did some yard work for him when I was teenager and had some interesting discussions with him.

It doesn't bother me to discuss Old Testament events in Church as if they actually happened. I don't think everything needs to be either explicitly or even internally prefaced with "Of course this probably never happened..."

In my mind, I guess you stop being Mormon when you lose your loyalty to and love for the Church. I really like being Mormon -- my skepticism pertains to abstract, unprovable theology generally and I like the practical service and friendship opportunities in the Church. I really couldn't see myself going to any other church. There are a lot of really good things about being Mormon, and none of them hinge on thinking Abraham was a real person.

[LA Ute]

Linky no worky. Can you fix it? Sounds interesting.

Oops, sorry. Try this:

http://sunstoneonline.com/magazine/i.../014-49-50.pdf

I fixed it in the post too.

[Moliere]

Your interpretation (that all of these events are allegorical) certainly opens up some interesting perspectives, but leaves you with a mountain of statements from prophets to account for. At what point do you stop being Mormon? I'm not implying that that matters to you, but I think it matters to Faulconer as he writes something for public consumption.

Well, if you want to take the Bible literally as well as the statements by JS that the Garden was in Missouri, wouldn't you have to take all matters in the Bible literally? If you are trying to reconcile why a real Adam and Eve started out in Missouri and ended up in Mesopotamia, then I think the Bible answers that quite well (as long as you are willing to accept it as literal).

I've already explained that A&E we kicked out of the garden. The Bible doesn't say where they were kicked out to. It could have been Kansas or it could have been Iran. This is a little more muddy for us Mormons since JS talked about how they were expelled to AOA, which he indicated was somewhere north of Indenpendence. So I guess a literal reading of these events coupled with statements from Mormon prophets still doesn't anaswer the question.

However, (taking the Bible literally again) there is another account where people were scattered through out the world during the story of the tower of Babel. In Genesis 11 we read:

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

So there again you have an instance where the people could have been scattered by God. Of course, this would imply that Noah lived in the Americas and the flood happened in the Americas (insert insensitive joke about hurricane Katrina here).

Your question implied that A&E were literal beings and that the garden of eden literally existed. If you take the Bible literally, I think there are several places where you can reconcile this in your mind. These aren't my personal views, but with an open mind they might help some reconcile the issues.

[LA Ute]

That's better, although I still think you're copping out of answering the question. I realize you don't *know*. I want to hear your model--your guess as to how things happened.

Frankly, I'd just be speculating and I would feel foolish. When I said I expect to be surprised some day, I meant that sincerely and was not being flippant. I don't know and I don't find speculation very appealing.

Eddie Jones makes the point that maybe Adam and Eve were removed from what is now Jackson County to Mesopotamia. I am not endorsing that view at all (and I don't think he is either), but it does serve to make a point: I believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God. I believe an angel showed a teenager where golden plates were located, and that Peter, James and John personally appeared on earth and restored God's priesthood authority to that same guy a few years later. If you want to discuss whether my religious beliefs are unscientific and unprovable, start with those. (I don't mean to be combative, just making the point.)

Make sense?