Where is the Garden of Eden?

[SeattleUte]

See 3D, I give a thoughtful answer an no one comments except creek in part. The majority are trying to wrap their brains around how the ancient Hebrews got from Missouri to the Middle East, and why God would do such a thing as put Adam and Eve in Missouri, and the rest of the Old Testament events in Canaan, Egypt, etc.

[creekster]

Well, sure. I think most of us accept that sort of explanation. But that doesn't deal with the statements identifying Jackson County as the physical location, statements that we haven't exactly filed under "Descendants of Cain et al".

Explanation? I guess. I didnt intend it to have anything whatsoever to do with the "where" question. I was just commenting on SU's comment.

[ERCougar]

I came up with this one on my run and I'm curious to hear thoughts:

The Fall is a metaphor for the loss of innocence and subsequent knowledge that each of us undergoes. Eve and Adam represent the two halves (yin-and-yang style) of our selves (Eve from Adam's rib and whatnot). There may have been a literal Adam as the first homo sapien, but as far as an actual Garden of Eden--completely metaphorical and representative of our innocent selves (maybe pre-age of accountability or something). Sometime during the millenium, there will be this gathering to a physical manifestation of the Garden of Eden, located in Jackson County, as we all return to purity. So JS was actually pointing out that there was no actual Garden of Eden, but that there will be a physical manifestation of the symbolic one taught in the scriptures. (This actually makes more sense with what JS would have thought, as he knew very well that there were two big oceans between the Israel and Jackson County).

Kind of rough, but it's what I could come up with. I don't know the wording of the statements well enough to see if this reconciles things. Any thoughts?

[Jeff Lebowski]

See 3D, I give a thoughtful answer an no one comments except creek in part. The majority are trying to wrap their brains around how the ancient Hebrews got from Missouri to the Middle East, and why God would do such a thing as put Adam and Eve in Missouri, and the rest of the Old Testament events in Canaan, Egypt, etc.

Hey! Whatever happened to silence = assent?

[LA Ute]

Anyway, this is not a tough question. No educated person should literally believe in the Garden of Eden story.

Perhaps the benighted among us here should be grateful that you and woot are willing to spend time with us, patiently (well, maybe not) educating us. I'll give you credit, you at least have been known at times to admit you crossed the line into being offensive or insulting. Still looking for woot's maiden apology.

[UtahDan]

See 3D, I give a thoughtful answer an no one comments except creek in part. The majority are trying to wrap their brains around how the ancient Hebrews got from Missouri to the Middle East, and why God would do such a thing as put Adam and Eve in Missouri, and the rest of the Old Testament events in Canaan, Egypt, etc.

Not everyone has a highly developed SU filter. A lot of people stopped reading at the first paragraph. Only a select few are able to say "hmm, if I keep reading there maybe something interesting here!"

[SeattleUte]

Not everyone has a highly developed SU filter. A lot of people stopped reading at the first paragraph. Only a select few are able to say "hmm, if I keep reading there maybe something interesting here!"

Wait a minute. I've seen people here make fun of Evengelists and their creationism. I've been told here repeatedly that the LDS Church is not creationist.

Either all humans issued from Adam and Eve or the story is mythical and allegorical. Why is this any more complicated than that?

Not to disparage anyone's intelligence, but I have a hard time accepting in this age that anyone who is not illiterate really believes there was a place called the Garden of Eden where the first two humans lived--the parents of all humans, the first two humans who looked like us and had brains the size of our brains. (EDIT: apparently people do believe that, so call me baffled at some people's lack of interest in self-examination.)

Now, that such a place may have existed in Missouri is the kind of thing I have a policy against even addressing except through snarky asides.

[Moliere]

See 3D, I give a thoughtful answer an no one comments except creek in part. The majority are trying to wrap their brains around how the ancient Hebrews got from Missouri to the Middle East, and why God would do such a thing as put Adam and Eve in Missouri, and the rest of the Old Testament events in Canaan, Egypt, etc.

Well, they were kicked out of the garden at some point. Maybe they were kicked over the ocean and they landed in modern day Iraq.

What do people have against Missouri anyway?

[UtahDan]

Wait a minute. I've seen people here make fun of Evengelists and their creationism. I've been told here repeatedly that the LDS Church is not creationist.

Either all humans issued from Adam and Eve or the story is mythical and allegorical. Why is this any more complicated than that?

Not to disparage anyone's intelligence, but I have a hard time accepting in this age that anyone who is not illiterate really believes there was a place called the Garden of Eden where the first two humans lived--the parents of all humans, the first two humans who looked like us and had brains the size of our brains. (EDIT: apparently people do believe that, so call me baffled at some people's lack of interest in self-examination.)

Now, that such a place may have existed in Missouri is the kind of thing I have a policy against even addressing except through snarky asides.

Lots of smart people do believe that though, so you must be missing something here. Right?

[SeattleUte]

Lots of smart people do believe that though, so you must be missing something here. Right?

Like I said, this is a baffling phenomenon. Not an uninteresting one, by the way.

[UtahDan]

Like I said, this is a baffling phenomenon. Not an uninteresting one, by the way.

I think it is pretty simple. Lots of folks don't place a premium on having an intellectually satisfying answer to this question.

[CardiacCoug]

If it weren't for the LDS endowment, I think the numbers would be much higher in favor of the metaphor/non-existent choice.

In my mind, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is a creation myth. These were clearly not literal people or a literal place.

But this myth can obviously still contain a number of religious and spiritual truths. Believing that this was an actual historical event is not necessary or even helpful, in my opinion.

God only wants us to believe in the truth.

[ERCougar]

Cmon people...
I'm honestly not attacking anyone's belief--I'm just curious to see how people's minds wrap around things.
To those who answered A: How do you reconcile this with the obvious conflicts with anthropologic evidence? clackamas at least gave it a shot with the simultaneous Edens thing (at least as far as I can comprehend what he's saying). I can even accept Eddie's model of God transplanting from Missouri to the Old World (God can do anything, right?). Any other ideas?
Those believing Mormons who answered B or C: What about the statements locating Eden in Jackson County? Cardiac--do you just blow these off? Do you think these are moving to the "less emphasized" category, along with JFS's statements on evolution? In 20 years, will we no longer be discussing Jackson County at all?

Maybe most are just following UD's approach in not really caring. I don't have a problem with not knowing everything, but I still feel like I have to at least come up with some models for resolving obvious violations of reason. I'm not quite ready to "embrace absurdity".

[TripletDaddy]

Perhaps the benighted among us here should be grateful that you and woot are willing to spend time with us, patiently (well, maybe not) educating us. I'll give you credit, you at least have been known at times to admit you crossed the line into being offensive or insulting. Still looking for woot's maiden apology.

wallah...the SeattleUte effect. This time with emoticon for emphasis.

[TripletDaddy]

Cmon people...
I'm honestly not attacking anyone's belief--I'm just curious to see how people's minds wrap around things.
To those who answered A: How do you reconcile this with the obvious conflicts with anthropologic evidence? clackamas at least gave it a shot with the simultaneous Edens thing (at least as far as I can comprehend what he's saying). I can even accept Eddie's model of God transplanting from Missouri to the Old World (God can do anything, right?). Any other ideas?
Those believing Mormons who answered B or C: What about the statements locating Eden in Jackson County? Cardiac--do you just blow these off? Do you think these are moving to the "less emphasized" category, along with JFS's statements on evolution? In 20 years, will we no longer be discussing Jackson County at all?

Maybe most are just following UD's approach in not really caring. I don't have a problem with not knowing everything, but I still feel like I have to at least come up with some models for resolving obvious violations of reason. I'm not quite ready to "embrace absurdity".

I can believe that my in-laws don't really care about the reconciliation. I have a very tough time believing many folks here don't care about a reconciliation.

I thought your mid-jog epiphany was interesting, btw. At first blush, it certainly has merit. I would think that apologists would latch on pretty eagerly (that was for marsupial) to a plausible theory that no longer has to rationalize scientific evidence for life in Africa instead of Missouri, for example.