I like Dieter's chances

[FMCoug]

What do you like about him? I've heard people say this before, but then when it gets down to it, they like things about him that I wouldn't like. Based on the reports of a couple of his talks at Rick's and a couple of his talks as an apostle, I've got him pegged as the most dangerous of them all.

The interactions I've had haven't been related to doctinal things per se. I don't really have an opinion one way or another on that. I'm referring to him administratively, interpesonally, as a leader, etc. He is very tech-savvy, I can tell you that much.

[SoonerCoug]

What do you like about him? I've heard people say this before, but then when it gets down to it, they like things about him that I wouldn't like. Based on the reports of a couple of his talks at Rick's and a couple of his talks as an apostle, I've got him pegged as the most dangerous of them all.

It's good to have dangerous successors. Blacks might have had to go without the priesthood for another decade if it weren't for President Kimball being afraid of what Benson might do.

P.S. Speaking of President Benson, isn't it bizarre that BYU's chemistry building is named after such an anti-science prophet?

[woot]

I looked up the "Don't take offense" talk, and I can see what people are so mad about. That seems at least as objectionable as Sis. Beck's talk. Apparently he also gave a talk indicating that men shouldn't date women who wear more than one earring in each ear, as it demonstrates a lack of willingness to obey the prophets.

I get the Packer reference now.

re: Sooner, Was Ezra a racist? Did Kimball know it?

[DapperDan]

*Ha49@Ympebcqjh

1. Thomas Spencer Monson (b. 1927)
2. Boyd Kenneth Packer (b. 1924)
3. Lowell Tom Perry (b. 1922)
4. Russell Marion Nelson (b. 1924)
5. Dallin Harris Oaks (b. 1932)
6. Melvin Russell Ballard, Jr. (b. 1928)
7. Richard Gordon Scott (b. 1928)
8. Robert Dean Hales (b. 1932)
9. Jeffrey Roy Holland (b. 1940)
10. Henry Bennion Eyring (b. 1933)
11. Dieter Friedrich Uchtdorf (b. 1940)
12. David Allan Bednar (b. 1952)
13. Quentin LaMar Cook (b. 1940)
14. D. Todd Christofferson (b. 1945)
15. Neil L. Andersen (b. 1951)

I'm really looking forward to the day we have a Prophet that can't look back on the 1950s as the highlight of human civilization. Looks like it may be a while yet.

[SoonerCoug]

I looked up the "Don't take offense" talk, and I can see what people are so mad about. That seems at least as objectionable as Sis. Beck's talk. Apparently he also gave a talk indicating that men shouldn't date women who wear more than one earring in each ear, as it demonstrates a lack of willingness to obey the prophets.

I get the Packer reference now.

re: Sooner, Was Ezra a racist? Did Kimball know it?

The SL Tribune had a story several months ago where they revealed that President Kimball feared that if he didn't give blacks the priesthood at that time, his successor wouldn't.

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_14287116

Spencer Kimball told one interviewer before the change, "I don't know that I should be the one doing this, but if I don't, my successor [Ezra Taft Benson] won't."

[SeattleUte]

So I've been looking at the Q of the 12 and thinking about who is most likely to ascend to the top at some point. Here are the apostles in order of seniority with birth year included. When assessing likelihood, my guess is purely based on age of apostle, age of apostles ahead of them, and the eyeball test. The "eyeball test" is an assessment of things like frailty, obesity, or known medical conditions.

1. Thomas Spencer Monson (b. 1927)
2. Boyd Kenneth Packer (b. 1924)
3. Lowell Tom Perry (b. 1922)
4. Russell Marion Nelson (b. 1924)
5. Dallin Harris Oaks (b. 1932)
6. Melvin Russell Ballard, Jr. (b. 1928)
7. Richard Gordon Scott (b. 1928)
8. Robert Dean Hales (b. 1932)
9. Jeffrey Roy Holland (b. 1940)
10. Henry Bennion Eyring (b. 1933)
11. Dieter Friedrich Uchtdorf (b. 1940)
12. David Allan Bednar (b. 1952)
13. Quentin LaMar Cook (b. 1940)
14. D. Todd Christofferson (b. 1945)
15. Neil L. Andersen (b. 1951)

A few things really stand out to me here. First of all, I give Elders Packer and Perry basically zero chance of outliving President Monson, although I hear that President Monson has type II diabetes. I also rank Elders Ballard, Scott, Hale, and Holland quite low based on the eyeball factor.

I'm pretty sure our next prophet is going to be either an incapacitated Elder Perry/Packer, or it's going to be Elder Nelson. It's no secret that I'm not absolutely crazy about Elder Nelson, but I sincerely hope he outlives Elder Oaks. Hopefully he keeps exercising. Elder Eyring looks quite fit, but he was born in 1933, and so I don't give him a very high likelihood of making it. So then you're looking at Elders Holland and Uchtdorf with the 1940 b-date, and Holland clearly fails the eyeball test. We are going to have a German prophet someday, folks. His was the only talk I listened to this weekend, and it was a real winner.

Beyond that, Elder Bednar is sitting pretty. I still don't know what to make of that.

They need a Gorbachev. Does it have to be a strict gerontocracy? That doesn't sound like modern revelation.

[scottie]

Elder Bednar strikes me as a more polished and educated version of Elder Packer.

I've thought this too.

[Medfordcoug]

I know him, he's very conservative, but he's not overbearing and not close minded. He really does have a heart of gold. He's gotten a lot of grief for his don't take offense talk, but that's to be expected given the topic.

I really liked that talk. So who was offended?

[Moliere]

Should I take the response here as negative? I understand evil speaking of the lord's anointed is a no-no, so with so little positive talk, is that a sign that none of the bottom four are fan favorites?

Of the bottom four, I really like Christofferson and Andersen. I've met Andersen but don't know him personally. Someone in my family does know him though and he is a very smart and likeable person. He also speaks fluent French, which is always a plus in my book. He toured my mission as a seventy and on Sunday he got up in Sacrament meeting and gave a 25 minute talk in French. The members loved not having a translator for a GA talk.

Christofferson is one of the most well-spoken people I've heard. Not just in conference with teleprompters and time to prepare, but I remember watching his news conference after being called and he was tremendous. I briefly (as in really briefly) knew his family but didn't know him.

It's not that I don't like Cook and Bednar, I just don't know them. I have yet to related to many of Bednar's talks, but that doesn't mean I'm negative about him. Cook, I honestly have no idea. Give it a couple years and I'll form my own opinion.

[SoonerCoug]

CougarBoard just dinged me for this post:

President Kimball said he might not have given blacks the priesthood if he weren't afraid that his successor (Benson) would never do it. (See SL Tribune article with direct quote from SWK on the matter a few months ago.)

Whenever people complain about ultraconservative crazy people in the Q of the 12, I cite this example as a reason they're useful.



It was a response to this post mocking Harry Reid:

The priesthood revelation wouldn't have happened without Harry Reid. You don't have to believe me, but it's true.

[smokymountainrain]

The priesthood revelation wouldn't have happened without Harry Reid. You don't have to believe me, but it's true.

That reminds me...I learned a while ago there may not be Mormon missionaries in Russia if not for another favorite of the Latter Day Saints...William Jefferson Clinton. True story.

[SoonerCoug]

I'm going down in flames on Cougarboard. Everything I post gets deleted and punished. Oh well.

[smokymountainrain]

I'm going down in flames on Cougarboard. Everything I post gets deleted and punished. Oh well.

Your original is still there. Have you been suspended yet?

[SoonerCoug]

Your original is still there. Have you been suspended yet?

You're not seeing all the other stuff that got deleted. I was cited for "inferring" that President Benson was crazy when I said that crazy ultraconservatives can be useful.

[smokymountainrain]

You're not seeing all the other stuff that got deleted. I was cited for inferring that President Benson was crazy when I said that crazy ultraconservatives can be useful.

heh. Apparently I need to pay closer attention.