Confidence in church leadership

[SoonerCoug]

I think some folks could be experiencing the "don't like Congress, but do like my Congressman" thing. IOW, the like the ones they know because they are concrete. The struggle with them as a group because as a whole they are little more than an abstraction for most of us who can easily be blamed for what the "church" doesn't or doesn't do.

My experience with congressmen has been quite the opposite. I strongly dislike the ones I have met, and the more personally I have gotten to know them, the less I have liked them.

[The_Tick]

No problem if it doesn't resonate with you. What I'm saying is that that just like the old boss, the organization of the church is very impersonal, detached, and authoritarian. This doesn't say anything about any of the individuals in the organization, but rather about the way the organization operates.

I am in 100% agreement with your first post Danimal.

My care factor is pretty low lately.

[RobinFinderson]

I don't trust church leaders because of their beady eyes.

[All-American]

I base my confidence in church leadership on their old age. It's not that I think they are wiser or better prepared to lead us than a young person. It's that they're so tame.

If we had young, energetic leaders, we'd be dealing with all kinds of problems. Other churches have young energetic leaders who end up getting busted download porn or having affairs or punching people (e.g. David Miscavige and Scientology). Even if one of our 80-something leaders did something bad, no one would ever believe it because they're so frail.

Which is worse for a church? To have leaders who are sometimes senile and living in the 1930s or 1940s, or to have leaders who make horrible mistakes like the ones scientology is dealing with right now? I'll take the elderly folks any day.

You would be shocked, I think, to know how active they are.

[Viking]

You would be shocked, I think, to know how active they are.

So are you saying they are having affairs and punching people?

[SoonerCoug]

You would be shocked, I think, to know how active they are.

Is this a reference to reproductive capacity? You can't possibly be referring to physique (with a couple of exceptions).

[All-American]

Is this a reference to reproductive capacity? You can't possibly be referring to physique (with a couple of exceptions).

The latter.

Shocked, I say.

[SoonerCoug]

The latter.

Shocked, I say.

Do some of them have six packs or something?

I can see how the fact that mopehood depends on longevity would motivate some to stay in shape. (I'm not saying this is the sole motivation, but it might motivate someone like me.)

[Viking]

Do some of them have six packs or something?

I can see how the fact that mopehood depends on longevity would motivate some to stay in shape. (I'm not saying this is the sole motivation, but it might motivate someone like me.)

Packer could kick your tail, ninja style, from what I understand

[smokymountainrain]

I would like for my relationship with General Authorities to be like my relationship with my current boss -- I respect and trust them, but I'm willing to give them a break when they're off on something. Unfortunately, it's more like my relationship with an old boss -- over time I've become disenchanted and lost much of the respect and trust I had in them. I'm no more likely to trust their opinions than most other peoples'.

So how is your relationship with general authorities? Obviously most of us don't have personal relationships with them (I don't, at least), but how do you relate to them? What's you dynamic?

Forgive the cop out answer, but it really depends on the GA. Since, like you say, most of us don't know many of them, I can't put my finger on what exactly differentiates those I do trust from those I don't so much, but I do find myself respecting the opinions of certain GAs (Christofferson, Holland, Oaks, come to mind) more than others.

[Katy Lied]

I don't know really what to think. Some days I think God is banging his head against the wall trying to get them to understand. Other days I think maybe the whole thing's a sham and that he doesn't have any more interest in the policies of the church than he does in any other organization. What do you think?

So in both cases your God wants women to have the priesthood. In the former, He is actively calling for it and the church is frustrating His purposes. In the latter He doesn't really care that the church is not following His wishes.

There's probably a GA or two out there who just as fervently believes that the same God who so clearly presided over a separation of gender roles in the OT and the NT still wants the Church to maintain separate roles in the latter day.

As far as my opinion goes, everything I've just asked you, I've asked myself more than once. My testimony doesnt hinge on this question. I struggle with other things, but not this one.

[ERCougar]

There's probably a GA or two out there who just as fervently believes that the same God who so clearly presided over a separation of gender roles in the OT and the NT still wants the Church to maintain separate roles in the latter day.

You know there were female prophets in the OT, right? Were you just posing the hypothetical wrong belief that some GA's may hold?

[wuapinmon]

You're always free to start your own church, and run it how you want to.

Go <redacted> yourself.

You're always free to stop being an ass.

:finger3: Shove it. Danimal is a good guy.

You're always free to stay over on cougarboard.

Amen & +1

So you like and trust them the more they see eye to eye with you? I think this is natural, we all do this with people. I know I do.

Do you believe that it is inevitable that one day women will hold the priesthood? Or do you believe that women will forever be separate and not allowed that honor? Do you think that the former or the latter position is closer to what God thinks?

I think they will get it someday. In essence they already have it when they do washings and anointings in the temple.

My question is: do you believe that God thinks that women should hold the priesthood and is waiting impatiently for the GAs to hop to it?

I do. I think God's ready but the men in the Church are not.

I've known a few GAs. Joseph Muren of the 2Q was a really good man. One of my current Area Authorities dissembles that he's poor and I can't stand to hear him speak. I feel completely repulsed by him and anything he says. Telling people you don't own much when you drove in in a pricey luxury car and everyone knows you own a hugely successful business is dissembling, and I can't stand it. :WUAP: :WUAP:

[Katy Lied]

You know there were female prophets in the OT, right? Were you just posing the hypothetical wrong belief that some GA's may hold?

I'm talking about concubines and multiple wives through which the birthright would pass for men but not women. I'm talking about separate worship ablutions and separate worshiping rooms for men and women. I'm talking about circumcision for men but no equivalent practice for women. I'm talking about different religious penalties for men and women even though the sin was the same.

Or is God more egalitarian, and the scriptures were written by men?

[ERCougar]

I'm talking about concubines and multiple wives through which the birthright would pass for men but not women. I'm talking about separate worship ablutions and separate worshiping rooms for men and women. I'm talking about circumcision for men but no equivalent practice for women. I'm talking about different religious penalties for men and women even though the sin was the same.

Or is God more egalitarian, and the scriptures were written by men?

Probably.

I figured you knew that. I just wasn't understanding your point.