Honesty and Tact

[Indy Coug]

Honestly won't offend someone if you take the care and thought to express it the correct way, both in word and tone. Unless if they're psycho. Then you're screwed.

[beefytee]

Honestly won't offend someone if you take the care and thought to express it the correct way, both in word and tone. Unless if they're psycho. Then you're screwed.

I hate it when people excuse being a jerk/lacking tact through the "Honesty" excuse.

Give me a break. Honesty isn't a good reason to be a jerk.


Edit: Sorry, just being honest.

[Pheidippides]

Are their any active members on here who have said "NO" to home teaching or having home teachers come over? I just wonder how that went for them.

I said no to going on the "mandatory" missionary splits I get assigned. I did it via an email to the EQ presidency (doubtless forwarded on) and got no response. Nobody has even mentioned it. We will see if I am still on the assignment list.

(FTR, my beef is not with the splits but with the mandatory "you-will-do-it-this-night-and-you-are-responsible-to-find-a-replacement" implementation. It's a stake issue).

[Babs]

I think this thread is dying because many CUFfers are unfamiliar with the latter topic.

How very honest of you.

[creekster]

How very honest of you.

that was a tactful criticism.

Just being honest!

[Babs]

that was a tactful criticism.

honestly, I don't know why I bother!

[creekster]

honestly, I don't know why I bother!

becasue you care, and you know we wont take a different tack without tact.

[Babs]

becasue you care, and you know we wont take a different tack without tact.

You're on the right track.

[creekster]

Being honest does not necessarily mean being clear. Sometimes, ambiguity allows you to be true to a more important virtue.

In my mind, that might depend on the source of the ambiguity. IOW, if the ambiguity is created by word choice calculated to mislead, or perhaps by body language intended to obfuscate or mislead, it is not an honest statement. If the ambiguity is created by some other means, such as only answering a portion of a question, or by ignoring the question and answering something not asked, then it is not a dishonest statement.

OTOH, the suggestion htat such ambiguity might be employed from time to time in order to avoid offense even if it is konwingly misleading is a good one.

[Tick's wife]

A few months ago I quit a calling that had made me miserable for 3 years. I regret I didn't do it after 6 months. It was so liberating. So much of my stress is gone and I'm sleeping a million times better.

My new calling is OK and if I don't want to do something, I don't and I couldn't care less.

cheers. I thought I was the only person in the church that ever quit a calling. thanks

[Tick's wife]

Just some thoughts that have been running through my mind.

I am in a good spot at Church right now. I really enjoy having a calling with my wife. I enjoy the calling itself. I don't read a ton of scriptures and I don't enjoy going to the temple. I enjoy Home Teachign. I enjoy Sacrament meeting and teaching our SS class. I abhor EQ and would rather go a round with Mike Tyson than attend.

When pushed though, how honest should we be with people?

I will say that I am much more honest the older I have gotten. I credit my wife for that. But when to draw the line...

I have found it to be quite invigorating since I have learned the word "No". When you tell people at Church "No", the look that they have on their face is one of shock. It is like it is the first time they have ever heard that word uttered in a Church building. The first time I said it it was like "The invention of Lying". No one knew what to do.

I have since found it to be quite empowering. But some folks just don't like it.

Here is the most recent example:

Bro. Jones is the new Scout Master. We have a Yard Sale once a year that raises money for Girls Camp and Scout Camp. Youth have to participate to be able to use any of the funds raised for your camp acct.

Three weeks ago during opening exercises Bro. Jones announces that someone had a Grandmother pass away and they were going to donate all of her furniture to our Yard Sale. The only requirements were that the stuff needed to be picked up on Monday Night at 730. Once the stuff was picked up, you were going to need to store whatever you were able to put in your vehicle at your house until it was time for the sale. (Mid April) End of announcement.

During EQ he pulls me aside and asks me if I was going to participate. I tolde him "No." He was dumbfounded. He said "If you don't participate, your daughter wont receive any of the funds." I said "That is alright. I would rather pay 150.00 than take the time or store the furniture." Again...look of shock.

So it got me to thinking...is it better to find a way to be tactful and leave both parties happy (What we at my house call "Mormon nice"), or better to just tell the truth and let folks deal with it. If they have an issue with it it is their issue.

What are your thoughts?

he's just surprised that we would take responsibility for our own child rather than have the church members pay for it. Mind you, if you can't afford it, that is what the fundraisers are for, however, there are those that always want the ward members to take care of it. The Jones' are so odd

[Katy Lied]

Being honest does not necessarily mean being clear. Sometimes, ambiguity allows you to be true to a more important virtue.

I bet your wife loves you for this.

(honestly)

[Babs]

Being honest does not necessarily mean being clear. Sometimes, ambiguity allows you to be true to a more important virtue.

spoken like an attorney.

[wuapinmon]

Being honest does not necessarily mean being clear. Sometimes, ambiguity allows you to be true to a more important virtue.

I have this problem sometimes in class. There's always one student who, after I've spent a good 2-3 minutes explaining the details of an assignment, will look up from their phone and ask a question that I've just answered. Starting Thursday, I am a tenured associate professor who can say pretty much whatever sarcastic lines he wants to in response. But, I care more about being a good teacher than satisfying my need to assert dominance over slackers, so I won't make students feel like I'm a jerk. In a language classroom, class cohesion and affective filters are very important and fragile things, and an asshole professor can destroy them quickly with a cutting remark, especially early in the semester. So, what do I do? I can answer the question patiently. I can mock the student. I can say, "I just answered that; ask a classmate after class," "It's on the syllabus and in Blackboard," or something else along those lines. But, once I get a feel for the individual, I'm usually able to come up with some kind of humorous response that both communicates my displeasure and the information requested without making the person believe that I dislike them; there'll be enough ambiguity in my response that the more important virtue of educating the youth is upheld without resorting to the consequence of too harsh a public embarrassment. I rarely dislike a student, but sometimes their behavior can be disappointing. I try to make it a rule to never scold in public. If I have to scold, I try to do it in private. For example, last semester, I had a student mutter under her breath three times in the first class that "she hates this crap" followed by an audible exasperated exhalation. When it came time for me to call on her with a "¿Cómo te llamas?" she responded with the "I hate this crap" line to me. I think I said something like, "Well, this crap is a required course, so let's be sure that your hatred doesn't prevent you from learning it enough to only have to take it once." A little harsh. Not my best work. That evening, I sent her an email, telling her that calling the class "This crap" in class was disrespectful, and I would appreciate it if she would temper her dislike of the material in class so that she didn't impact her neighbor's learning. Something like that. She sent me back a very apologetic email, worried that I hated her, and even went and told her coach that she was in trouble with me. I assured her, and her coach, that she wasn't, and she wound up being a fun student who wasn't very good at that crap, but still tried her hardest. If I had responded in kind to her comments in front of everyone, without tact, our relationship might've been forever changed in a bad way.

The few times I have scolded a student publicly, in my, gulp, 14 years of teaching, is when someone has made a sexual remark about a classmate, gay or straight, that demanded an immediate correction and reprimand. About a year or so ago, I had a very comely young woman in my class sitting amidst six lacrosse players. Good-boys, jocular by nature, but one of them was fixated on her and made no secret of relentlessly flirting with her. I don't remember the exact line, but he made a comment about her body that was grossly inappropriate, and I had to say something like, "Sir, that is inappropriate, and if I hear one more word like that, you will be permanently excused from my class. Do I make myself clear?" Shocked, he said, "Yes, sir" and that was that. No more issues. Otherwise, I keep scolding private, like when I had a kid who wore a shirt to class that said, in large block print, "I'm the guy you have to blow to get a drink around here." Private conversation in my office, very respectful, said he wouldn't do it again, and never had another problem.

Honestly won't offend someone if you take the care and thought to express it the correct way, both in word and tone.

There are those moments, at least for me, when you have to give someone a response because they've put you on the spot, in front of others, and you give it your best, but the response still comes across as curt.
The gift of always having a measured response probably comes with age, personality, and, honestly, charisma (which has a nest of causes, many of which we cannot control). Intelligence probably plays a factor too, as someone gifted with a quick wit can often diffuse a situation through verbal artistry without sounding insincere. But charisma and appearance play a huge role in how we are perceived. Attractive people can probably get away with a lot more rudeness than the average person can.

[The_Douger]

I am on the scout committee in my ward. I'm in charge of doing the board of reviews for rank advancement for Boy Scouts in my ward. It's an easy calling, the scoutmaster emails me the progress of the boys and I interview those who are up for rank advancement with a couple other members of the Scout committee. I attend the committee meetings once a month. No big deal, one of the easier callings In have had.

The first counselor and bishop have wanted me to go to some sort of leadership training for BSA, which is an all day Saturday event. I don't love the scouting program, I earned my Eagle and did all that stuff, but in adulthood it's not my favorite thing. I am happy to help out with my calling and on the committee. I do a 12 hour shift every other Saturday, so I'm only home 2 Saturdays a month. I told them I am not giving up a free Saturday away from my family to go do 8 hours of leadership training when I interact with the boys infrequently, and don't attend scout meetings or activities.

The bishop said "Well, maybe you'll eventually be in a position or calling where leadership training for BSA could be beneficial to you and the boys in this ward." I replied "Well, if that's eventually the case, I may feel a greater need in the future to attend leadership training."

I feel like I was pretty polite in the exchange in saying no. Since that time, he's made a couple of offhand remarks that show he's not really happy with how that went.