LDS Prejudice in 2009

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • wuapinmon
    Soul Plumber
    • Dec 2008
    • 30711

    #1

    LDS Prejudice in 2009

    I'd like to get some discussion going about prejudice in this Church, both official and unofficial. Let's not revisit the past, but let's talk about where we are today and the things that have been said, by the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency since October 1978.

    I keep finding hatred in the rank and file membership, whether it's bigotry against people of other faiths; racism against minorities; prejudice about lifestyle, dress, tatoos, or grooming; or, thinly-veiled digs against a group while hiding behind "standing for righteousness" or "political discourse."

    Here are some recent examples from my life to get the discussion going.

    1) This past Summer, I asked for permission to plant an EQ garden on the large lot behind our Church (it is Church-owned). Directly behind the lot is a large apartment complex that had been "section 8-ed" which means that gov't subsidies allow lowerclass families to live there. The complex is overwhelmingly African American in population. While discussing possible crops to plant, the WML said, "I wouldn't plant any watermelons back there, you'll never get a one of 'em." Everyone laughs as I sit there and wait for someone in the bishopric to reprove them....no one does.

    2) Translation annoyance. On occasion we'll have someone from Latin America come to buy cars at the Darlington Raceway auto auction and the come to Church. We have no Spanish session in the stake, so I offer to translate. As quiet as I try to be, and with people knowing full well what I'm doing, they will still shush me. When I tell them what I'm doing afterwards, they say, "they should learn to speak English."

    3) Many a time while living in Utah did I hear the same people say that they "weren't racist" while the term "Mexican" and "Dirty Mexicans" flew from their lips. I can't count how many times people have openly ripped on hispanics.

    4) Whenever one of the BYU athletes got busted for shoplifting, people would say things like "well what did you expect?"

    5) What I call xenoparlophobia....whenever I'm speaking Spanish or Portuguese with someone at Church, people often assume that I'm speaking about them.

    6) I'm in the Atlanta temple one time a few years back and my wife gets asked if she'll come stand in so a man can be sealed to his deceased wife. My wife is asked if it's ok for her to do it if the man is black. I am about to rebuke someone in the temple when the sister explains, embarrassed, that someone else had been asked, but when she came in the sealing room and saw him, she said, "no," turned around and left.

    7) My own family is overwhelmingly LDS and Southern. My wife's family is Washington County, Utah Mormon. My family is deeply prejudiced against blacks collectively, though they love certain "good ones." My wife's extended family thinks Mexican immigrants are a cancer that grows worse every day (nevermind that Washington County used to BE Mexico). If I try and talk to my family about why it's wrong to be prejudiced about blacks, I get called a "bleeding-heart liberal" and scorned.

    8) Missionary from Utah in my ward here about three weeks ago says, "My new companion used to be down in Georgetown and he says it's a lot better here; it's a lot less black."

    9) Homophobia. The nervous worrying about someone being gay jokes just don't stop. Whether it was on the mission, at BYU, in my ward, or in my branch. When I've said, "A practicing homosexual is no worse a sinner than any other fornicator" I've been told I was wrong, that it's worse than adultery (I hadn't realized adultery was a hetero only act) because it's an "unnatural act" (apparently oral sex is unnatural to some people too, fyi). If you want to make Mormon men uncomfortable, just talk openly about homosexuality, mention that you have a colleague who is gay, and the judging and nervousness and more judging will all show up, sometimes even with the cliche nervous laughter.

    I can go on and on. I think I'd like to write a letter to the First Presidency and ask them to address directly the issue of bigotry in the LDS Church today and why it's wrong. There was an Ensign article about seven or eight years ago by a Seventy, but I'd like to see one of the big guns train his sights on hatred and call it out, by name, say it's wrong, and make people realize that it's not Christlike. There have been many times in my life since I converted that I didn't recognize something was a sin until someone called me on it. I mean I knew, but I didn't think it was that bad.

    Am I right, am I wrong, am I a leftist pig?
    "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
    The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon
  • All-American
    Right, as Usual
    • Nov 2008
    • 15665

    #2
    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
    I'd like to get some discussion going about prejudice in this Church, both official and unofficial. Let's not revisit the past, but let's talk about where we are today and the things that have been said, by the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency since October 1978.

    I keep finding hatred in the rank and file membership, whether it's bigotry against people of other faiths; racism against minorities; prejudice about lifestyle, dress, tatoos, or grooming; or, thinly-veiled digs against a group while hiding behind "standing for righteousness" or "political discourse."

    Here are some recent examples from my life to get the discussion going.

    1) This past Summer, I asked for permission to plant an EQ garden on the large lot behind our Church (it is Church-owned). Directly behind the lot is a large apartment complex that had been "section 8-ed" which means that gov't subsidies allow lowerclass families to live there. The complex is overwhelmingly African American in population. While discussing possible crops to plant, the WML said, "I wouldn't plant any watermelons back there, you'll never get a one of 'em." Everyone laughs as I sit there and wait for someone in the bishopric to reprove them....no one does.

    2) Translation annoyance. On occasion we'll have someone from Latin America come to buy cars at the Darlington Raceway auto auction and the come to Church. We have no Spanish session in the stake, so I offer to translate. As quiet as I try to be, and with people knowing full well what I'm doing, they will still shush me. When I tell them what I'm doing afterwards, they say, "they should learn to speak English."

    3) Many a time while living in Utah did I hear the same people say that they "weren't racist" while the term "Mexican" and "Dirty Mexicans" flew from their lips. I can't count how many times people have openly ripped on hispanics.

    4) Whenever one of the BYU athletes got busted for shoplifting, people would say things like "well what did you expect?"

    5) What I call xenoparlophobia....whenever I'm speaking Spanish or Portuguese with someone at Church, people often assume that I'm speaking about them.

    6) I'm in the Atlanta temple one time a few years back and my wife gets asked if she'll come stand in so a man can be sealed to his deceased wife. My wife is asked if it's ok for her to do it if the man is black. I am about to rebuke someone in the temple when the sister explains, embarrassed, that someone else had been asked, but when she came in the sealing room and saw him, she said, "no," turned around and left.

    7) My own family is overwhelmingly LDS and Southern. My wife's family is Washington County, Utah Mormon. My family is deeply prejudiced against blacks collectively, though they love certain "good ones." My wife's extended family thinks Mexican immigrants are a cancer that grows worse every day (nevermind that Washington County used to BE Mexico). If I try and talk to my family about why it's wrong to be prejudiced about blacks, I get called a "bleeding-heart liberal" and scorned.

    8) Missionary from Utah in my ward here about three weeks ago says, "My new companion used to be down in Georgetown and he says it's a lot better here; it's a lot less black."

    9) Homophobia. The nervous worrying about someone being gay jokes just don't stop. Whether it was on the mission, at BYU, in my ward, or in my branch. When I've said, "A practicing homosexual is no worse a sinner than any other fornicator" I've been told I was wrong, that it's worse than adultery (I hadn't realized adultery was a hetero only act) because it's an "unnatural act" (apparently oral sex is unnatural to some people too, fyi). If you want to make Mormon men uncomfortable, just talk openly about homosexuality, mention that you have a colleague who is gay, and the judging and nervousness and more judging will all show up, sometimes even with the cliche nervous laughter.

    I can go on and on. I think I'd like to write a letter to the First Presidency and ask them to address directly the issue of bigotry in the LDS Church today and why it's wrong. There was an Ensign article about seven or eight years ago by a Seventy, but I'd like to see one of the big guns train his sights on hatred and call it out, by name, say it's wrong, and make people realize that it's not Christlike. There have been many times in my life since I converted that I didn't recognize something was a sin until someone called me on it. I mean I knew, but I didn't think it was that bad.

    Am I right, am I wrong, am I a leftist pig?
    President Hinckley spoke out against racism in the Priesthood session of October 2006, condemning it in no uncertain terms.

    I suspect that a number of factors contribute to prejudice among members of the church. One of these is certainly location; given the location of church headquarters in oh-so-white Utah, Utah mormons tend to have less interaction with other races. Effects of the priesthood ban certainly echo to the present, though I suspect its greatest effect is the contribution to the prior factor, since there are not high black populations among high mormon populations and vice versa.

    Yet another factor is the reluctance of church members to ask questions about any area on which the prophet has spoken. I believe the main reason the priesthood ban lasted as long as it did was the loyalty of church members who stood behind the decisions of Brigham Young and other church leaders of earlier years. This is most evident now with your last point: homophobia. With all the hubbub and everything the church has come out and said in the name of the Lord about marriage and the family, we can't back down, and we are not particularly willing to find out how much wiggle room we have in dealing with the issue, even in the name of charity towards all.

    I do think church leaders have spoken out about many of the things which you pointed out, and/or are trying to figure out what can be done. I know at least one poster here will disagree with me, but I don't believe the church is guilty of institutional prejudice. The fact that such tendencies still exist, however, simply show me what we already know: church members aren't perfect.

    I would certainly encourage you to make as much noise about it as you can, though. Sure, we're imperfect; yes, we'll always be imperfect in this life. No reason we shouldn't try to change that anyways.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

    Comment

    • il Padrino Ute
      Junior Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 19161

      #3
      Is "Mexican" racist? I'll cede that "dirty Mexican" is a pejorative and implies racism, but I disagree with "Mexican".
      "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


      "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

      Comment

      • SeattleUte
        Faith crisis consultant
        • Nov 2008
        • 20837

        #4
        The LDS Church could give its members a crash course in the evils of racism if it just repudiated and apologized for its racist past, not only in respect of blacks but also things Spencer W. Kimball and others said about native Americans and natives of the South Sea islands, including fictionalizing their history. The LDS leadership couldn't give its membership a bigger gift. The resulting enlightenment would spread far and wide and be many faceted.
        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

        --Jonathan Swift

        Comment

        • wuapinmon
          Soul Plumber
          • Dec 2008
          • 30711

          #5
          Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
          Is "Mexican" racist? I'll cede that "dirty Mexican" is a pejorative and implies racism, but I disagree with "Mexican".
          Mexican can be perjorative in context. Tone also matters. Tone tells you tomes.
          "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
          The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

          Comment

          • wuapinmon
            Soul Plumber
            • Dec 2008
            • 30711

            #6
            Originally posted by All-American View Post
            I do think church leaders have spoken out about many of the things which you pointed out, and/or are trying to figure out what can be done. I know at least one poster here will disagree with me, but I don't believe the church is guilty of institutional prejudice. The fact that such tendencies still exist, however, simply show me what we already know: church members aren't perfect.
            Just to clarify, I'm not saying that they haven't spoken out against it....I just want it to happen often, from the big guns, until it infiltrates itself into the curriculum, the lessons, and the mindset, that we are truly all brothers and sisters. I think that idea is put forward, but sometimes gets lost along the way.

            I do what I can, but how do I answer my daughter when she comes home from school in tears because the kids at school tell her they don't like her cause she's white? (I recognize this has nothing to do with the Church, but I don't want her picking up on other people's prejudices at Church as a way to soften the sting of her classmates racism).
            "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
            The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

            Comment

            • RobinFinderson
              Banned
              • Nov 2008
              • 10548

              #7
              Even if members believe that the priesthood ban and the resulting leadership ban on women is an example of divinely inspired discrimination, the resulting prejudice is not. Sexism in the church abounds.

              Women are placed on a pedestal. They are overly protected, which teaches young women a sense of weakness. They are socialized to accept limited educational and professional goals, and when strong LDS women buck those trends, there is nattering about whether the ambitious woman is putting off family/children, sacrificing her family, or has her priorities straight.

              This isn't true every place. I saw less of it in my liberal wards and more of it in conservative wards. I can't remember seeing any of it at the Yale student ward, however I really loved that ward and might be lionizing it in retrospect.

              Comment

              • Hallelujah
                Junior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 2741

                #8
                Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
                Is "Mexican" racist? I'll cede that "dirty Mexican" is a pejorative and implies racism, but I disagree with "Mexican".
                It's as much racist as calling people Americans, Russians, Ukranians, Canadians. If they are from Mexico, they're Mexicans. Or am I missing something.

                Comment

                • Hallelujah
                  Junior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 2741

                  #9
                  Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                  The LDS Church could give its members a crash course in the evils of racism if it just repudiated and apologized for its racist past, not only in respect of blacks but also things Spencer W. Kimball and others said about native Americans and natives of the South Sea islands, including fictionalizing their history. The LDS leadership couldn't give its membership a bigger gift. The resulting enlightenment would spread far and wide and be many faceted.
                  Because blacks couldn't hold the priesthood; that is racist?

                  BTW.....the entire south is still racist. Mormon, Catholic, Evangelicals, etc. It's not a religious thing.

                  Comment

                  • RobinFinderson
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 10548

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hallelujah View Post
                    It's as much racist as calling people Americans, Russians, Ukranians, Canadians. If they are from Mexico, they're Mexicans. Or am I missing something.
                    When ignorant people categorically assume that brown people are 'Mexican,' that is an example of racist behavior.

                    Comment

                    • Jeff Lebowski
                      Corporate lackey for Jesus
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 69706

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Hallelujah View Post
                      Or am I missing something.
                      You always seem to be missing something.
                      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                      Comment

                      • creekster
                        It is NOT a monkey!
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 22661

                        #12
                        Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post
                        When ignorant people categorically assume that brown people are 'Mexican,' that is an example of racist behavior.
                        IOW, like WUapinmon (did I get that right?) said, it depends on context and tone.
                        PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                        Comment

                        • RobinFinderson
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 10548

                          #13
                          Originally posted by creekster View Post
                          IOW, like WUapinmon (did I get that right?) said, it depends on context and tone.
                          Yes, it depends on whether the person is Mexican.

                          Comment

                          • creekster
                            It is NOT a monkey!
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 22661

                            #14
                            Originally posted by RobinFinderson View Post
                            Yes, it depends on whether the person is Mexican.
                            NAd the rest of the context and tone. BEing mistaken is not prejudice.
                            PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                            Comment

                            • RobinFinderson
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 10548

                              #15
                              Originally posted by creekster View Post
                              NAd the rest of the context and tone. BEing mistaken is not prejudice.
                              If you are mistaken because there was good evidence that the person was Mexican (a Jalisco bumper sticker?) then it isn't racism. But if you are mistaken because you made an assumption based on bad evidence (racial profile) then it is an example of racism.

                              I should point out that I don't think this is a particularly heinous example of racism.

                              Comment

                              Working...