Honest question re BYU's course

[Art Vandelay]

I did a metaphorical analysis paper on Tupac's "Me & My Girlfriend" in my freshman English 115 class at BYU. My anti-BYU co-workers have a difficult time dealing with this fact.

A real rebel would have went with "Hit'em Up".

[Colly Wolly]

A real rebel would have went with "Hit'em Up".

Yeah, but "Me & My Girlfriend" is richer in metaphorical content. I took the easy way out.

[falafel]

While I'm sure my anecdotal experience will not mean much overall, I wanted to weigh in. I was an English major at BYU from 2000-2003 (freshman year was 1997-98). I never felt like anything was being censored or that we were only being taught literature or critical techniques that were aligned with the gospel.

We never read anything that was especially base, either. I spent most of my time in the modern and post-modern areas, and there were plenty of opportunities to discuss sex, masturbation, ejaculation, drugs, murder, etc. I suppose we could have dug deeper into those themes, but we didn't avoid them.

[UtahDan]

Yikes! I knew there was a clamp down at BYU but that is kind of freaky. I guess if the church is going to pour millions of dollars somewhere they don't want it to turn around and bite them.

It is not at all surprising if you think about it. In the eyes of most church members being a professor at BYU cloaks anything that person says with a great deal of authority. For the same reason, such a person stand in a unique position to inflict damage. With that said, I hope someday we will begin to let go of our fears.

[Indy Coug]

Academic Freedom is a major issue in the Statistics department. We had to use the Cyrillic alphabet to denote statistical parameters because of all the negative connotations that Greek has -- you know, with Hellenization, Seattle Ute and so forth.

[UtahDan]

Academic Freedom is a major issue in the Statistics department. We had to use the Cyrillic alphabet to denote statistical parameters because of all the negative connotations that Greek has -- you know, with Hellenization, Seattle Ute and so forth.

Maybe BYU could just eliminate all of those dangerous humanities and liberal artsy departments and become a trade school. That seems to be what it excels at now. The Brigham Young Technical Institute has a nice ring to it!

[Indy Coug]

Maybe BYU could just eliminate all of those dangerous humanities and liberal artsy departments and become a trade school. That seems to be what it excels at now. The Brigham Young Technical Institute has a nice ring to it!

If I'm a student that is going to spend $100K-$250K to get a university education, why the hell would I piss that money away on a liberal arts education?

I realize this may be an offensive question to those that have invested their money, heart and soul into that area, but I struggle to understand how that level of expenditure can be justified in light of the associated financial millstone.


P.S. I enjoy learning in general and enjoyed the handful of liberal arts classes I took in HS and at BYU.

[UtahDan]

If I'm a student that is going to spend $100K-$250K to get a university education, why the hell would I piss that money away on a liberal arts education?

I realize this may be an offensive question to those that have invested their money, heart and soul into that area, but I struggle to understand how that level of expenditure can be justified in light of the associated financial millstone.


P.S. I enjoy learning in general and enjoyed the handful of liberal arts classes I took in HS and at BYU.

I actually think your position is not unusual. I don't mean this in a critical way, but I think it is common in the church for people to feel this way because they feel at some level that their knowledge of the gospel already provides them with anything important they would learn in the humanities, social sciences, etc. Also they know at some level that these things might pose a threat somehow.

Practically speaking I think it just depends on what you are going in to. Most undergraduate degrees don't prepare you for a career anyway, you need grad school for that. That is the reason many value a liberal arts education.

[Indy Coug]

And the point I'm trying to make is that given the skyrocketing costs of a college education, which is over four times the rate of inflation, make a liberal arts education less and less appealing because the PV of future earnings yields a prohibitively low ROI.

[pellegrino]

If I'm a student that is going to spend $100K-$250K to get a university education, why the hell would I piss that money away on a liberal arts education?

I realize this may be an offensive question to those that have invested their money, heart and soul into that area, but I struggle to understand how that level of expenditure can be justified in light of the associated financial millstone.


P.S. I enjoy learning in general and enjoyed the handful of liberal arts classes I took in HS and at BYU.

that's why you do what you do and I do what I do. Remember Indy, the world is beautiful because it is diverse.

[Indy Coug]

that's why you do what you do and I do what I do. Remember Indy, the world is beautiful because it is diverse.

I don't begrudge anyone following their interest or their heart. However, I do think the economics are becoming so burdensome that it will increasingly marginalize a liberal arts education.

I wish I had the luxury of being able to take more language courses or history courses or music courses, etc. etc. while in college. I very well may do so when I retire.

[byu71]

that's why you do what you do and I do what I do. Remember Indy, the world is beautiful because it is diverse.

I am in full agreement. In retrospect, I really didn't have any friends that I would classify as so called "intellectuals", before participating on this board. I now have quite a few, at least I think I do. I can now look at those who appreciate the arts, humanities, philosophizing, digging up bones,etc. from a whole new perspective.

I no longer look at it as competition as to whether how I look at life is better than how "they" look at life. I only "prefer" how I choose to prioritize for me.

That being said, I reserve my right to mock and argue with intellectuals.

[beelzebabette]

I actually think your position is not unusual. I don't mean this in a critical way, but I think it is common in the church for people to feel this way because they feel at some level that their knowledge of the gospel already provides them with anything important they would learn in the humanities, social sciences, etc. Also they know at some level that these things might pose a threat somehow.

Practically speaking I think it just depends on what you are going in to. Most undergraduate degrees don't prepare you for a career anyway, you need grad school for that. That is the reason many value a liberal arts education.

?

I consider myself fairly average, and the gospel background has no bearing on my interest "in the humanities, social sciences, etc." I would rather have dropped 4-6 of the required religion hours for another liberal arts class or two, but I was tuition driven to graduate with the minimum semesters possible. After graduation, a friend and I put together a book club and invited friends & friends of friends with history, theater, English, political science, etc. degrees to try to learn more cross-discipline so I know I'm not alone. I can't figure out where you're coming from with this comment other than just a trolling attempt.

[thesaint258]

About the interview process at BYU: I wonder if the criteria changes according to what GA interviews you. I've met some GAs who would definitely be the type statman describes in his story. I've also met others who wouldn't even ask for the Religion Department to review a book much less even have it occur to them. Do any of you academics know if that's true, or are things always similar to statman's story?

[Flystripper]

I think there would be one except I am pretty sure that posting on sport's message boards is a violation of "the Ivy religion" ... Those guys/gals do important things like create shrines to Modigliani and Miller (may the flame of their towering intellectual contribution always burn brightly)

Screw those guys! Capital structure IS relevant, damn it!