Why have a ward budget and reimbursements?

[Uncle Ted]

It is only a burden if they allow it to be a burden.

The reason the church gets away with this is two-fold, IMO.

First, they put out the message that "we aren't here to compete for kids entertainment" and members have been taught to never question leaders. they accept this nonsense.

Second, members "fund" activities for their callings out of their own pockets.

Members need to stop funding things. If there isn't money enough to pay for activities out of the budget, then the local leaders will sqwauk at stake and area leaders and it will work it's way up.

As an aside, my dad struggled with funding stuff out of his own pocket when he was bishop. He could easily do it and wanted to. However, he was worried about the next bishop that might not be able to do it. It could be a huge burden of expectation to a future bishop.

I'm sure you've seen similar things in your own wards. I've seen it with Priest quorum leaders. Big spending leaders with good intentions lead to some problems when they are released if the next person in that position is either unwilling or unable to continue ponying up personal funds to fund the youth programs.

The problem I have with the funding of youth programs is the inconsistent application of the fundraiser policy. The policy is interpreted at the stake level and applied as they feel. In our stake, for example, no fund raiser (other than Friends of Scouting) is allowed. Therefore, activities such as high adventure come completely out of the budget. Even a very modest high adventure completely drains the budget.

Now, some of the boys have cousins, friends, etc. in other locations (mostly Utah) that talk about the great high adventure they had on their Facebook accounts and this information gets back to our young men. The next thing you know we have YM griping about how "my so-and-so cousin in Utah did this so why can't we?" The church really needs to get consistent on how this policy is applied in its stakes.

So what usually happens to make up the difference? We pay for things out of our pockets. I have told my bishop in tithing settlement many times the reason my fast offerings where as good as they could be was I used some of the funds that I allocated for FOs to help fund the YM program. He usually just says to me that I still gave a generous FO.

As for working its way up I have been pointing this problem out for some time now and it seems to always died somewhere. I have even written the General YMP. No response. So if you or anyone else has some ideas, let me know.

[Paperback Writer]

It is only a burden if they allow it to be a burden.

The reason the church gets away with this is two-fold, IMO.

First, they put out the message that "we aren't here to compete for kids entertainment" and members have been taught to never question leaders. they accept this nonsense.

Second, members "fund" activities for their callings out of their own pockets.

Members need to stop funding things. If there isn't money enough to pay for activities out of the budget, then the local leaders will sqwauk at stake and area leaders and it will work it's way up.

As an aside, my dad struggled with funding stuff out of his own pocket when he was bishop. He could easily do it and wanted to. However, he was worried about the next bishop that might not be able to do it. It could be a huge burden of expectation to a future bishop.

I'm sure you've seen similar things in your own wards. I've seen it with Priest quorum leaders. Big spending leaders with good intentions lead to some problems when they are released if the next person in that position is either unwilling or unable to continue ponying up personal funds to fund the youth programs.

In my experience, the flow is the opposite. Instead of working its way up - it works its way down like all programs and informations flows (orders) in the church. The policy of poor funding of scout and YM/YW programs is at the stake level in my area. We even had a SP that sent funds back to SLC, and was proud of it, while local leaders continually funded scouts and YM activities out of their own pockets.

When I pushed things to the stake leaders, their reply was that greater funds does not equal greater success in terms of YM earning their Eagle and going on missions. One SP guy cited his experience in San Diego where they had a vast budget and did things like scuba diving, surfing, and went on awesome high adeventures. Then he mentioned that the success rates (Eagle/missions) are higher in our Dallas area stake with a lesser budget. The problem with such comparisons is that there are YM who are dropping out of the YM program after they earn their Eagle and still go on missions. These guys will show up on Wednesday nights when the activity is something worthwile or they show up and then leave early from the lame activity and go over to a friend's house to hang out. The stalwart YM are still successful using their criteria (eagle/missions) while marginally participating. It's the "at-risk" YM that are being lost because there's little of value in their eyes for participating. Even the steadfast attraction of church B-ball is gone in our area.

[Moliere]

So when the church sends funds to local stakes and wards for their annual budget do they adjust for cost of living? Or in other words, do wards in San Francisco and New York get the same amount as those in Whichita or Pocatello? What about foriegn countries - do they adjust for the cost of living in Ghana and Equador vs. Japan and Germany?

What is your guesstimate as to the percentage of total church annual income (tithing and investment return) that goes back to wards for their annual budget (not including building or maintenance costs)? Is 20-25% too high or too low?

Comparing budgets by ward is not the best exercise as the ward budgets are controlled by the stake, not church HQ. Church HQ allocates money to the stake and the stake allocates that money to the wards. There is probably some cost of living correlation, but I doubt it is significant (just speculation on my part).

Some ward budgets are small, but then the stake will take care of ceratin expenses to make up for that and some ward budgets are big and the stake pays for less. My ward budget is small and the stake doesn't pay for anything.

[Surfah]

The problem I have with the funding of youth programs is the inconsistent application of the fundraiser policy. The policy is interpreted at the stake level and applied as they feel. In our stake, for example, no fund raiser (other than Friends of Scouting) is allowed. Therefore, activities such as high adventure come completely out of the budget. Even a very modest high adventure completely drains the budget.

Now, some of the boys have cousins, friends, etc. in other locations (mostly Utah) that talk about the great high adventure they had on their Facebook accounts and this information gets back to our young men. The next thing you know we have YM griping about how "my so-and-so cousin in Utah did this so why can't we?" The church really needs to get consistent on how this policy is applied in its stakes.

So what usually happens to make up the difference? We pay for things out of our pockets. I have told my bishop in tithing settlement many times the reason my fast offerings where as good as they could be was I used some of the funds that I allocated for FOs to help fund the YM program. He usually just says to me that I still gave a generous FO.

As for working its way up I have been pointing this problem out for some time now and it seems to always died somewhere. I have even written the General YMP. No response. So if you or anyone else has some ideas, let me know.

This is an issue. Our stake only allows one fund raiser a year but there are so many restrictions on what can be done that it's almost worthless. Our troop is doing a flag service for $25/yr. They'll come hang a flag on 4 holidays in your yard. The problem is they can only solicit within the ward. And the second issue is they only had the funds for 15 flag kits. Basically this year they'll break even if they get 15 takers. Next year if they're unable to purchase more flags they'll have enough to send one scout to camp.

At some point the Church needs to drop scouts altogether. If for no other reason than it is too damn difficult and costly to sustain a troop as currently constituted.

[creekster]

This is an issue. Our stake only allows one fund raiser a year but there are so many restrictions on what can be done that it's almost worthless. Our troop is doing a flag service for $25/yr. They'll come hang a flag on 4 holidays in your yard. The problem is they can only solicit within the ward. And the second issue is they only had the funds for 15 flag kits. Basically this year they'll break even if they get 15 takers. Next year if they're unable to purchase more flags they'll have enough to send one scout to camp.

At some point the Church needs to drop scouts altogether. If for no other reason than it is too damn difficult and costly to sustain a troop as currently constituted.

I agree it is an issue. Our stake also only allows one fund raiser a year. Our leders hit on an idea that has paid off very well. They rent a lawn aerating machine and then charge people (mostly ward members sign up) $75 to areate their lawn. They will also do sprinkler maintenace (i.e. replace broekn heads) at aned extra charge. They orignially spent a single saturday doing it. It became so popular they ow do it over two saturdays. They net quite a bit of money.

[Surfah]

I agree it is an issue. Our stake also only allows one fund raiser a year. Our leders hit on an idea that has paid off very well. They rent a lawn aerating machine and then charge people (mostly ward members sign up) $75 to areate their lawn. They will also do sprinkler maintenace (i.e. replace broekn heads) at aned extra charge. They orignially spent a single saturday doing it. It became so popular they ow do it over two saturdays. They net quite a bit of money.

You know what that isn't a bad idea. The local non-LDS troop sells mulch and kills it every year. They come take orders and then one Saturday they go around dropping off all the bags of mulch. We're probably the only house on our street that doesn't buy from them. Also, this is just one of a number of fundraisers they have each year.

[pellegrino]

Yes, it's a churchwide change.

do we know the reasoning for this change? First they axe the activities committee then they reduce the budgets accordingly. This is not the first cut in budgets we've seen either, as most of the maintenance is done by ward members. is It seems like a corporate squeeze to me.

[Moliere]

You know what that isn't a bad idea. The local non-LDS troop sells mulch and kills it every year. They come take orders and then one Saturday they go around dropping off all the bags of mulch. We're probably the only house on our street that doesn't buy from them. Also, this is just one of a number of fundraisers they have each year.

Yeah, selling mulch would be a great idea.....although the CHoI says:

Examples of fund-raising activities that are not approved include:

1. Activities that would be taxable.
2. Activities completed with paid labor, either by employees or by contract.
3. Entertainment for which the stake or ward pays performers for their services, when admission is charged, and when the intent of the activity is to raise funds.
4. The sale of commercial goods or services, including food storage items.
5. Games of chance, such as raffles, lotteries, and bingo.
Any exceptions to these instructions must be approved by a member of the Presidency of the Seventy or the Area Presidency.

The Friends of Scouting fund drive in the United States will continue as a separate, voluntary solicitation.

[Moliere]

do we know the reasoning for this change? First they axe the activities committee then they reduce the budgets accordingly. This is not the first cut in budgets we've seen either, as most of the maintenance is done by ward members. is It seems like a corporate squeeze to me.

I have not seen a decrease in budgets per se (although ours was way too low to begin with), but they also aren't growing, at least for the past 5 years. But again each ward is allocated their budget by the stake so it's tough to tell if there is a squeeze. It could be that my stake is taking the squeeze and not passing it on to the wards.

One good thing about the change is you no longer lose your unspent budget at the end of the year. If you have $1K left over you get it the next year. It also encourages wards to stay within their budget since there isn't money in the account when it's all gone (and by account I mean on paper through intercompany balances, not the bank).

[Mormon Red Death]

Yeah, selling mulch would be a great idea.....although the CHoI says:

Yeah, selling mulch would be a great idea.....although the CHoI says:


Examples of fund-raising activities that are not approved include:

1. Activities that would be taxable.
2. Activities completed with paid labor, either by employees or by contract.
3. Entertainment for which the stake or ward pays performers for their services, when admission is charged, and when the intent of the activity is to raise funds.
4. The sale of commercial goods or services, including food storage items.
5. Games of chance, such as raffles, lotteries, and bingo.
Any exceptions to these instructions must be approved by a member of the Presidency of the Seventy or the Area Presidency.

The Friends of Scouting fund drive in the United States will continue as a separate, voluntary solicitation.

How about games of skill like sports betting? or a poker tournament?

[Northwestcoug]

You know what that isn't a bad idea. The local non-LDS troop sells mulch and kills it every year. They come take orders and then one Saturday they go around dropping off all the bags of mulch. We're probably the only house on our street that doesn't buy from them. Also, this is just one of a number of fundraisers they have each year.

The troups in our community (both LDS and non-LDS) spend 2 Saturdays after Christmas disposing of people's Christmas trees. They first canvas a ton of houses, leaving a note and bag to attach money on the tree. They then pick them all up and take them to the dump. They have made upwards of 6000 each year, which they divide up between the troops. For the amount of time they put into it, I think they getting a ton of money.

[Walter Sobchak]

I declined a reimbursement request yesterday because the request didn't have a clean receipt.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.

[Green Monstah]

I declined a reimbursement request yesterday because the request didn't have a clean receipt.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.

I just deduct the cost from my tithing rather than dealing with a-holes like you.

[Walter Sobchak]

I just deduct the cost from my tithing rather than dealing with a-holes like you.

She more or less said the same thing!

Deja_Vu.jpg

[Sleeping in EQ]

I'm ready to replace the financial clerk with a Zion's Bank ATM and a website.