Youth temple recommend requirements

[FMCoug]

Lingo, the most charitable thing that can be said about you in this thread is that you are acting extremely naieve.

[JohnnyLingo]

Is it out of the question that people prayed about someone before proposing? It is a big decision.

There's a big difference between praying and asking if you should marry this person and asking if God approves of your decision to marry this person, IMO.

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I see a difference.

Lingo, the most charitable thing that can be said about you in this thread is that you are acting extremely naieve.

Good hell, people, I said "I'm lucky enough to not have experienced anything like that" and thanked thesaint for his explanation.

What more do you want from me?

[TripletDaddy]

To SteelBlue's point, I think that if I were to find myself in the position of his ward friend, my commitment to God would likely take a short-term back burner to my overall commitment to living.

I don't know if I could carry on in that situation.

To me it makes perfect sense that testimony takes a hit when placed under extreme duress. Testimonies are based on faith. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. When we lose hope in life, we often lose faith. There is a logical symbiosis there, at least in my mind.

[Indy Coug]

God picked David to be king of Israel. Just because there is a one-time seal of approval on something doesn't mean it's predestined to end happily.

[Indy Coug]

To SteelBlue's point, I think that if I were to find myself in the position of his ward friend, my commitment to God would likely take a short-term back burner to my overall commitment to living.

I don't know if I could carry on in that situation.

To me it makes perfect sense that testimony takes a hit when placed under extreme duress. Testimonies are based on faith. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. When we lose hope in life, we often lose faith. There is a logical symbiosis there, at least in my mind.

Agreed. The emotional and spiritual are inextricably tied together and to go through something as traumatic as a broken marriage will have a detrimental impact on your spirituality. How long and how dramatic that change will be is going to vary greatly by person and circumstance.

[Rosebud]

So is one of the main problems here -- both for this man and his wife -- that they expect God to take care of them, and when life isn't smooth they blame him and/or the church for their problems?

*****

One of the red flags I see in this story (of course with very limited knowledge of it) is that this man feels like a victim of his wife. He might be (I can't know), but in my experience real victims usually either keep quiet or are unaware of their own victimhood.

Sometimes people play victim to hurt their partner. Come on.... you guys know this... women are masters at this game. They convince themselves that their husbands are the bad guys, start nagging, complain about him to their family and friends, etc. The truth isn't that they are victims. The truth is that they are victimizing their husbands by playing victim, right? This guy may just be doing the same. In this case the church may be no more than a tool in his game.

It sounds like he's really hurt, though. So.... I guess I don't mean to say that he might be playing victim intentionally or anything. It would make sense that he's trying to figure himself out and to understand why God isn't taking care of him (considering that he has grown up believing that if he just keeps the commandments, his life will be good).

[smokymountainrain]

This is where you tend to come off as an asshole. It's wonderful that you know you'd still believe. You honestly can't imagine that when the woman who you believed would be your eternal mate cheats on you multiple times, leaves you, turns your daughter against you and makes keeping your boys in the church as difficult as possible your faith might take a hit? Really? I can only imagine somebody saying what you said if they've had almost no adversity in life.

I get a kick out of people constantly pointing out the negative posts Lingo makes, but conveniently ignoring others...

Apparently you missed this... http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...34&postcount=5

[bluegoose]

To SteelBlue's point, I think that if I were to find myself in the position of his ward friend, my commitment to God would likely take a short-term back burner to my overall commitment to living.

I don't know if I could carry on in that situation.

To me it makes perfect sense that testimony takes a hit when placed under extreme duress. Testimonies are based on faith. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. When we lose hope in life, we often lose faith. There is a logical symbiosis there, at least in my mind.

Come on, TD. Get your Blues straight! He was MY ward friend - not Steel's. Steel only knows him through ME! Sure, they may or may not have shared a couch cushion at my house for the Oklahoma game this September, but he was still my friend first.

But.... I agree with what you are saying in your last paragraph there. I think most people would go through a seriously difficult time maintaining hope and faith when faced with such a sudden, life-changing challenge.

Under those circumstances, first priority would be figuring out how to get my butt out of bed in the morning.

Second, how to get proper oxygen to my brain when it doesn't seem like much of a priority at the time.

Then, I would check the message machine and the mail to see what kind of false allegations and restraining orders have been placed against me, keeping me from the only thing in my life of any seeming value.

Then, how to maintain gainful employment, not knowing if your kids will still be at the house when you get home after a shift.

Finally, if I still have any drive left in me, I can start to deal with figuring out what kind of condition my faith and testimony are in.

[wuapinmon]

I get a kick out of people constantly pointing out the negative posts Lingo makes, but conveniently ignoring others...

Apparently you missed this... http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...34&postcount=5

SMR, but I think most people are tired of his saying something negative, and then giving his particularly irksome brand of just-kidding-type response when someone points out his obtuseness, lack of empathy, and/or naivete on a subject. I'm guessing that goose's posting about this because it's weighing heavily on his heart at the moment, and he actually risked not posting it in the Speakeasy only to have Lingo come in and do his thing. So, while you get a kick out of it, I think goose feels like he's getting kicked by sharing.

If Lingo would just erase the last line of almost all of his posts, he'd come across completely differently.

[TripletDaddy]

Come on, TD. Get your Blues straight! He was MY ward friend - not Steel's. Steel only knows him through ME! Sure, they may or may not have shared a couch cushion at my house for the Oklahoma game this September, but he was still my friend first.

But.... I agree with what you are saying in your last paragraph there. I think most people would go through a seriously difficult time maintaining hope and faith when faced with such a sudden, life-changing challenge.

Under those circumstances, first priority would be figuring out how to get my butt out of bed in the morning.

Second, how to get proper oxygen to my brain when it doesn't seem like much of a priority at the time.

Then, I would check the message machine and the mail to see what kind of false allegations and restraining orders have been placed against me, keeping me from the only thing in my life of any seeming value.

Then, how to maintain gainful employment, not knowing if your kids will still be at the house when you get home after a shift.

Finally, if I still have any drive left in me, I can start to deal with figuring out what kind of condition my faith and testimony are in.

whoops. that was my fault all the way. sorry

The guy is lucky to have both of you as friends. Sounds like a really trying situation with his wife and children. Best to all involved.

[smokymountainrain]

SMR, but I think most people are tired of his saying something negative, and then giving his particularly irksome brand of just-kidding-type response when someone points out his obtuseness, lack of empathy, and/or naivete on a subject. I'm guessing that goose's posting about this because it's weighing heavily on his heart at the moment, and he actually risked not posting it in the Speakeasy only to have Lingo come in and do his thing. So, while you get a kick out of it, I think goose feels like he's getting kicked by sharing.

When I read his comment, I saw it as a sincere response rather than a "just-kidding-type response". I could be wrong.

If Lingo would just erase the last line of almost all of his posts, he'd come across completely differently.

Agreed.

[bluegoose]

It's really sad when parents hurt their kids by using them as pons (EDIT: think brainstem.... haha) during divorce battles.

Excellent brainstem reference. I thought it shouldn't go unrecognized.

It sounds to me like there is a chance that they've put the church into the middle of their power struggle?????

No question. I've got another friend who's wife left the church immediately after going to the temple for the first time. Its been a challenge for him, trying to keep his kids active in the church alone, but he tries just as hard to not let the church divide he and his wife. Sometimes are easier than others, no doubt.

IMO, the only safe thing to do is follow church policy. Otherwise, you risk offending one parent or the other and/or being accused of taking sides.

At this point, they've been safely separated and divorced for several years. She has no desire to have anything to do with the church. The ex husband is closer to her parents (who are still active in church) than she is. I don't think playing favorites is a big deal any longer. The line in the sand has been drawn. Now its a power struggle, imo.

EDIT: BTW, I think this policy is wrong. It's too bad that it takes so long to make changes.

Hey, no fair adding on something sensible and reasonable after I've already passed judgement!!!

[beefytee]

There's a big difference between praying and asking if you should marry this person and asking if God approves of your decision to marry this person, IMO.

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I see a difference.

What would be the difference here?

I prayed and God said I should marry this girl... and it sucked. God must hate/not care about me.

Or

I prayed and God didn't raise any red flags that marrying this girl would be a problem. God must hate/not care about me.

Results look exactly the same to me.

[Rosebud]

What would be the difference here?

I prayed and God said I should marry this girl... and it sucked. God must hate/not care about me.

Or

I prayed and God didn't raise any red flags that marrying this girl would be a problem. God must hate/not care about me.

Results look exactly the same to me.

I don't want to get mixed up in the Lingo battle. I'm trying to stay neutral. So.... please know that I'm just responding because a thought came to mind when I read the two bolded sentences.... that's all.


It seems that the thinking behind both statements is based on two beliefs: 1) that the wife is at fault, and 2) that God will make sure good people have good lives. One or both premises could be faulty. People who use this type of thinking may be happier if they start looking at what they do have control over instead of what they don't. In other words.... perhaps it is wiser to look at yourself and your own faults instead of God's or someone else's.

[wuapinmon]

It seems that the thinking behind both statements is based on two beliefs: 1) that the wife is at fault, and 2) that God will make sure good people have good lives. One or both premises could be faulty. People who use this type of thinking may be happier if they start looking at what they do have control over instead of what they don't. In other words.... perhaps it is wiser to look at yourself and your own faults instead of God's or someone else's.

But, that's the thing....there are people who do everything right and the spouse still cheats, apostatizes, moves to Oklahoma, etc. In those cases, the person is left to wonder where "they" went wrong if God confirmed to them that it was all okay.

The thing in all this we have to remember that, just as with Saul in Israel, God knows all possible outcomes, but not which one we'll choose. He takes risks, otherwise, our free agency is illusory and we just automatons acting out the post-lapsarian Divine Will. What this means is that the guy could've prayed and asked and God could've said, "You have my blessing," and he winced a little thinking of all that could go wrong, the same way I do when I watch my son walk along the edge of a sidewalk. He might fall, but I'm willing to let him run that risk because he might not.

Sledgirl?, what you're getting at here is really just a matter of trying to place blame on human agency. Not knowing the details, we can't say, but we can say in hypotheticals that God grants his blessing when there's at least a chance of it working. Maybe he's a celestial actuary created after Indy's likeness (but not prowess).