God and Punishment

[OrangeUte]

I don't believe that God punishes. I think consequences for sin and bad actions come naturally, or not at all, in this life.

succinct and well-stated.

[Rosebud]

A friend from my childhood is having lots of struggles with one of their children and his wife is having a very difficult time with testimony and activity, etc. It's a long complicated story, but apparently the wife is having a very difficult time and is not currently a "faithful" member of the church. i take that to mean that she is denying the truthfulness of the church and questioning what she believes. She has also had a severe falling out with one of their children who he told me she says is "a complete disappointment" among other things, and she is refusing to acknowledge that the child is hers (the child is a middle school aged boy). the child has alot of emotional issues, but apparently isn't doing drugs or anything, and from what i can tell is just rebellious and alot temperamental.

I was talking with the husband about the situation, and he told me that "god is punishing" his wife. I asked him how and he said to me that she is being punished by a lack of any blessings, including the spirit.

One of the biggest problems I have with your friend's line of reasoning is that it prevents him/protects him from having to face what some of the other causes of his wife's behaviors may be. IMO, if he can work past his tendency to blame her struggles on her sins, he might start listening well enough to figure out what is bothering her. Maybe then he'll be prepared to start solving some of the problems. A good God would want him to love his wife and help her through her difficulties, not stand on the sidelines and state that she is receiving just punishment.

Your friend may be doing this already.... these are just my initial thoughts after reading your story.

[John McClain]

The purpose of faith.

I lost my father this year to cancer. I cried at his pain and his descent into physical hell. Yet he was one of the most righteous men I have ever known and a true patriarch, both as his calling in the Church and to his family. Was he being punished for his sins? I don't believe it for a minute. His blessings outweighed his torment in such large measure when viewed in the overall picture. We will judged justly when the time comes. In the meantime we live by faith. That is the purpose of our mortal existence.

[OrangeUte]

One of the biggest problems I have with your friend's line of reasoning is that it prevents him/protects him from having to face what some of the other causes of his wife's behaviors may be. IMO, if he can work past his tendency to blame her struggles on her sins, he might start listening well enough to figure out what is bothering her. Maybe then he'll be prepared to start solving some of the problems. A good God would want him to love his wife and help her through her difficulties, not stand on the sidelines and state that she is receiving just punishment.

Your friend may be doing this already.... these are just my initial thoughts after reading your story.

steelblue and i were talking about this exact issue last night while we were running. i think that it certainly is a selfish tendancy we have to judge rather than understand. in a marriage that is often a deal-killer.

[Rosebud]

steelblue and i were talking about this exact issue last night while we were running. i think that it certainly is a selfish tendancy we have to judge rather than understand. in a marriage that is often a deal-killer.

Agreed.... and marriage can be pretty systemic. Who knows? Maybe your friend's wife feels his judgement and would change a lot if she felt listened to instead. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I guess my thought is that listening and serving is more Christlike than labeling someone's actions as sin and their trials as the punishments of God.

I can't imagine that I'd respond very well if I were in your friend's wife's position. If my husband asserted that God was punishing me for my sins, I doubt I'd start considering repentance. Like you said: it could be a deal-killer.

[Babs]

RB, I missed a few days, but it's good to see that you've been posting again, especially with that avatar! Please post more. (And then some more.)

[OrangeUte]

RB, I missed a few days, but it's good to see that you've been posting again, especially with that avatar! Please post more. (And then some more.)

The old avatar with the gladiator sandals and painted toe nails was much, much better.

[Rosebud]

RB, I missed a few days, but it's good to see that you've been posting again, especially with that avatar! Please post more. (And then some more.)

Thanks, I thought you'd appreciate Jean.

I realize that this is a pointed question, and yes, I know that I'm asking it publicly...... but does this mean that there's enough room for both of us around here?

[Babs]

Thanks, I thought you'd appreciate Jean.

I realize that this is a pointed question, and yes, I know that I'm asking it publicly...... but does this mean that there's enough room for both of us around here?

wait. Are you saying you only returned to posting in babs's absence?

[Rosebud]

wait. Are you saying you only returned to posting in babs's absence?

Not at all. I returned because of the persistence of a good friend and because I decided I was being too stubborn. I hadn't actually been watching things closely enough to realize you hadn't been around.

[Babs]

I returned because of the persistence of a good friend and because I decided I was being too stubborn.

I see. Well, regardless, it's good to have you back on the front side of the board.

[wuapinmon]

The old avatar with the gladiator sandals and painted toe nails was much, much better.

Thanks, I worked hard on it.

[Rosebud]

I see. Well, regardless, it's good to have you back on the front side of the board.

If this is your answer.... then I agree. I hope that you hang around out here as well.

Also.... please remember to post often in the foyer. Your perspective is beneficial. And it definitely won't hurt me to have someone else around who can fully admire Jean's eyes.......

[Babs]

If this is your answer.... then I agree. I hope that you hang around out here as well.

Well, I admit I'm still getting my feet wet, but so far the water seems nice enough.

[OrangeUte]

Thanks, I worked hard on it.

i can tell - teva's are very sexy with french tips on toes.