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  • God and Punishment

    A friend from my childhood is having lots of struggles with one of their children and his wife is having a very difficult time with testimony and activity, etc. It's a long complicated story, but apparently the wife is having a very difficult time and is not currently a "faithful" member of the church. i take that to mean that she is denying the truthfulness of the church and questioning what she believes. She has also had a severe falling out with one of their children who he told me she says is "a complete disappointment" among other things, and she is refusing to acknowledge that the child is hers (the child is a middle school aged boy). the child has alot of emotional issues, but apparently isn't doing drugs or anything, and from what i can tell is just rebellious and alot temperamental.

    I was talking with the husband about the situation, and he told me that "god is punishing" his wife. I asked him how and he said to me that she is being punished by a lack of any blessings, including the spirit.

    I have always operated under the belief that God is there for us during difficult times, even times of spiritual crisis, and while he may not be blessing us, he isn't punishing us - that's why we believe that the Savior suffered and died for us, so we can gain forgiveness.

    This discussion raised several questions in my mind... Is this man right, could God be punishing his wife in the flesh for sinful behavior? Does God do that? When I sin and I feel completely horrible for several days and I suffer, am I at that point in time being punished and therefore paying for my own sins?

    Can a man or priesthood leader really be able to determine that God is actually punishing someone else - even if he is actually a righteous man, could he receive that kind of inspiration or revelation that shows him the intent of God and what God is doing to his wife?

    Any thoughts or insight?

  • #2
    God is not a God of Color By Numbers and how he deals with us individually varies individually and on occasion that may include punishing us for our transgressions.

    Quick example: Joseph Smith was punished by God for his 116 page screwup.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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    • #3
      I think it is too easy for some to pidgeon hole events/circumstances:

      Bad things happen and I am living faithfully: God is testing me

      Bad things happen and I am not living faithfully: God is punishing me

      Good things happen and I am living faithfully: God is rewarding me

      Good things happen and I am not living faithfully: God still loves me despite myself
      "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

      "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

      "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

      -Rick Majerus

      Comment


      • #4
        Matthew 5:44-45:

        Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
        God sends sun to the evil and rain to the just?!? That doesn't sound fair now does it? Both good and evil will receive both good and bad from him. As a result I find it imperative to forgive my enemies and not wait for God to intervene and smite them, because if you are a good person who has been receiving rain, and your enemies are wicked people who have been receiving sun, that may never change. It is what it is.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by OrangeUte View Post
          A friend from my childhood is having lots of struggles with one of their children and his wife is having a very difficult time with testimony and activity, etc. It's a long complicated story, but apparently the wife is having a very difficult time and is not currently a "faithful" member of the church. i take that to mean that she is denying the truthfulness of the church and questioning what she believes. She has also had a severe falling out with one of their children who he told me she says is "a complete disappointment" among other things, and she is refusing to acknowledge that the child is hers (the child is a middle school aged boy). the child has alot of emotional issues, but apparently isn't doing drugs or anything, and from what i can tell is just rebellious and alot temperamental.

          I was talking with the husband about the situation, and he told me that "god is punishing" his wife. I asked him how and he said to me that she is being punished by a lack of any blessings, including the spirit.

          I have always operated under the belief that God is there for us during difficult times, even times of spiritual crisis, and while he may not be blessing us, he isn't punishing us - that's why we believe that the Savior suffered and died for us, so we can gain forgiveness.

          This discussion raised several questions in my mind... Is this man right, could God be punishing his wife in the flesh for sinful behavior? Does God do that? When I sin and I feel completely horrible for several days and I suffer, am I at that point in time being punished and therefore paying for my own sins?

          Can a man or priesthood leader really be able to determine that God is actually punishing someone else - even if he is actually a righteous man, could he receive that kind of inspiration or revelation that shows him the intent of God and what God is doing to his wife?

          Any thoughts or insight?
          My bishop asked me if my gall bladder/heel spur problems were due to "any spiritual imbalances" in my life. I stifled my anger and told him that I'm more worthy of a temple recommend now, vis a vis sins of commission, than at any previous time in my life. I said something like, "So, no, bishop, I don't think God is humbling me by making my gall bladder hurt."
          "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
          The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
            I think it is too easy for some to pidgeon hole events/circumstances:

            Bad things happen and I am living faithfully: God is testing me

            Bad things happen and I am not living faithfully: God is punishing me

            Good things happen and I am living faithfully: God is rewarding me

            Good things happen and I am not living faithfully: God still loves me despite myself.
            Bingo.

            I never assume any of the above are true.

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            • #7
              I don't think God punishes us because we sin but I believe we have labeled things that hurt us as sin.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by JohnnyLingo View Post
                Bingo.

                I never assume any of the above are true.
                I assumed it was the case for Austin Collie so I could laugh at ALUFs who hated him. Outside of that, I still put stock in JIC's last point. It is true for everyone that God loves us in spite of our sins and we all have things to be grateful for.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
                  I think it is too easy for some to pidgeon hole events/circumstances:

                  Bad things happen and I am living faithfully: God is testing me

                  Bad things happen and I am not living faithfully: God is punishing me

                  Good things happen and I am living faithfully: God is rewarding me

                  Good things happen and I am not living faithfully: God still loves me despite myself
                  I love this. I may use this in conversation in the future....with your permission, of course. The "why" in life's events can be as difficult to wrap our head around as "answer" to prayer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mUUser View Post
                    I love this. I may use this in conversation in the future....with your permission, of course. The "why" in life's events can be as difficult to wrap our head around as "answer" to prayer.
                    Absolutely. I 100% agree with your last sentence as well.
                    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

                    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

                    "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

                    -Rick Majerus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
                      I think it is too easy for some to pidgeon hole events/circumstances:

                      Bad things happen and I am living faithfully: God is testing me

                      Bad things happen and I am not living faithfully: God is punishing me

                      Good things happen and I am living faithfully: God is rewarding me

                      Good things happen and I am not living faithfully: God still loves me despite myself
                      If you're saying that good things happen to people and bad things happen to people and God is irrelevant in the equation, then I would agree with you. I think teaching people that simply by obeying God's commandments they will be blessed and happy, is emotionally damaging and accounts for the booming anti-depressant business in Utah County.
                      "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Non Sequitur View Post
                        If you're saying that good things happen to people and bad things happen to people and God is irrelevant in the equation, then I would agree with you. I think teaching people that simply by obeying God's commandments they will be blessed and happy, is emotionally damaging and accounts for the booming anti-depressant business in Utah County.
                        I disagree. I thik it is equating the notion of blessing with material prosperity or personal gratification. IOW, it is not the formulation of God's interaction, it is the confusion of then ature of the blessing that we can or should expect. More often than not, in my experience, the blessing is having the wisdom and peace to deal with whatever life circumstance we are in at the time.
                        PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Non Sequitur View Post
                          If you're saying that good things happen to people and bad things happen to people and God is irrelevant in the equation, then I would agree with you. I think teaching people that simply by obeying God's commandments they will be blessed and happy, is emotionally damaging and accounts for the booming anti-depressant business in Utah County.
                          Throw in "and opiate" after "anti-depressant" and I'll agree with you. If anything opiate abuse in Utah county is more shocking. And why so many doctors are writing scripts for them is beyond me...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by creekster View Post
                            More often than not, in my experience, the blessing is having the wisdom and peace to deal with whatever life circumstance we are in at the time.
                            Nicely put...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by statman View Post
                              Throw in "and opiate" after "anti-depressant" and I'll agree with you. If anything opiate abuse in Utah county is more shocking. And why so many doctors are writing scripts for them is beyond me...
                              I had a thorochotomy this year, and all I can say is thank God for Opiates. Of course, I couldn't wait to get off of them; the side effects are horrible. But I don't know how I could have gotten through that without Dilaudid and Oxycontin.
                              "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

                              Comment

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