The fourfold purposes of the LDS Church!

[JohnnyLingo]

I don't want to speak for Coach but I think what he was saying was that many of those who complain about government funding for social programs believe that the needed help should be funded voluntarily and not through taxation. So, a church increasing their monetary commitment to the poor would be an acceptable and preferred method (read non-socialist) of delivering needed services.

Spot on. I don't have a problem with assistance being given to the poor, but the government forces us to do it and then does a terribly inefficient job with it.

Keep assistance localized.

And wuap? For all you've preached to me in the past about not making personal attacks, you sure are fond of them.

[The_Tick]

1. I hope you feel better. I was sick all last week; you have my empathy.

2. From Solon's post:


That quote describes you perfectly.

Thanks for the well wishes. My wife wants me to go to the Dr...she think I have pnuemonia. Who knows.

I would say that it probably does describe me. I don't suffer from "White Guilt". I didn't choose to be born this color. It is what it is. All I know is that I haven't had anything handed to me. I have had to work for it all.

I don't think I am a jackass because this is my outlook.

[The_Tick]

But I will say this...

I am curious as to how the Church is going to roll this out, because I am not kicking anymore in:

Financially -

Tithing
Fast Offering
Friends of Scouting
Missionary Fund
School Fundraisers
Sheriffs/Police/Fire Department

Time -

Church
Volunteer work at School
Coaching Softball
Homeless Shelter stuff (has a soft spot in my heart)

The Church already gets plenty from me, so I hope they are going to be a little more judicious with what is already contributed.

[Solon]

But I will say this...

I am curious as to how the Church is going to roll this out, because I am not kicking anymore in:

Financially -

Tithing
Fast Offering
Friends of Scouting
Missionary Fund
School Fundraisers
Sheriffs/Police/Fire Department

Time -

Church
Volunteer work at School
Coaching Softball
Homeless Shelter stuff (has a soft spot in my heart)

The Church already gets plenty from me, so I hope they are going to be a little more judicious with what is already contributed.

You forgot the PEF.

Maybe they'll let poor people move into the City Creek Condos.

[The_Tick]

I have yet to kick into the PEF.

We are working on helping to get a kid in the ward on a mission to Honduras next month, so that is where we have been kicking the extra too...

I didn't want to misrepresent myself there.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't want to speak for Coach but I think what he was saying was that many of those who complain about government funding for social programs believe that the needed help should be funded voluntarily and not through taxation. So, a church increasing their monetary commitment to the poor would be an acceptable and preferred method (read non-socialist) of delivering needed services.

Granted, but I don't think anyone harbors the notion that the Church will mandate that we pay more taxes to the government. This program will be administered entirely through the Church, so government red tape didn't enter my original thought.

I guess you are saying that increased taxes by the government, not good; increased "taxes" by the Church, good.

I am saying that I am interested in seeing what the reaction is from those that politically tend to view the poor as a nuisance (laziness, drugs, lack of motivation, etc). I wonder whether they will reject, at least in implementation, this call for increase support of the poor. There is an undertone of hostility towards illegal aliens and the poor because some political persuasions view them to be a drag on our country. Now the Church comes out and says to love and support them even more than before.

Keep in mind that I still don't know what this increase in "support" will look like, so obviously I am simply speculating right now. But my gut tells me that it won't be as well received as the other 3 missions.

PS I am not speaking of Coach here, obviously. I am simply speaking generically.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I've wondered for some time if the Church would ever shift its fulltime missionaries from purely proselyting to more charitable service. I know such service has been provided in limited amounts, but with this new declaration there may be move toward increasing that effort among the missionaries.

I spent close to 2,000 hours knocking on doors in Austria, with negligible success (I suppose a couple of members would disagree). Devoting, say, half of that time to assisting the indigent (Peace Corps type stuff) might be a more efficient use of a missionary's time.

[creekster]

I've wondered for some time if the Church would ever shift its fulltime missionaries from purely proselyting to more charitable service. I know such service has been provided in limited amounts, but with this new declaration there may be move toward increasing that effort among the missionaries.

I spent close to 2,000 hours knocking on doors in Austria, with negligible success (I suppose a couple of members would disagree). Devoting, say, half of that time to assisting the indigent (Peace Corps type stuff) might be a more efficient use of a missionary's time.

I agree. Plus, it might lead ot more effective missioanry work, too. Like Ammon, go work in the stables and be of service to open hearts.

[Non Sequitur]

Currently, do funds for humanitarian aid come solely from fast offerings, and if so, with the new emphasis is that going to change?

[SCcoug]

Right now proclaiming the gospel is mostly shouldered by 19-21 year old missionaries, perfecting the saints by 26-50 year old members and redeeming the dead by members 50 and up. I wonder what demographic the new mission will fall to, or will we see a more even sharing of the load.

[creekster]

Right now proclaiming the gospel is mostly shouldered by 19-21 year old missionaries, perfecting the saints by 26-50 year old members and redeeming the dead by members 50 and up. I wonder what demographic the new mission will fall to, or will we see a more even sharing of the load.

I am so close to only having to wrry about dead people. I hoep they leave that category alone.

[venkman]

Granted, but I don't think anyone harbors the notion that the Church will mandate that we pay more taxes to the government. This program will be administered entirely through the Church, so government red tape didn't enter my original thought.

I guess you are saying that increased taxes by the government, not good; increased "taxes" by the Church, good.

I am saying that I am interested in seeing what the reaction is from those that politically tend to view the poor as a nuisance (laziness, drugs, lack of motivation, etc). I wonder whether they will reject, at least in implementation, this call for increase support of the poor. There is an undertone of hostility towards illegal aliens and the poor because some political persuasions view them to be a drag on our country. Now the Church comes out and says to love and support them even more than before.

Keep in mind that I still don't know what this increase in "support" will look like, so obviously I am simply speculating right now. But my gut tells me that it won't be as well received as the other 3 missions.

PS I am not speaking of Coach here, obviously. I am simply speaking generically.

I'm pretty right wing in some respects and I'm all for this.

A big downside (one of the many) to the modern welfare state is that it can create a dependency on government for many people and enable laziness. I think the church strives to give a hand up, not just a hand out, and I think they do a pretty good job at it. I've been a financial clerk and I've seen what I view as abuse of the system by some folks and it bothered me. I think it happens less in the church than say government welfare, but it still happens. Like Goat, I've tried to have the attitude of not judging and just being grateful that I have the opportunity to contribute.

But I can't overstate it enough, for me, the difference between involuntary taxes for "welfare programs" and voluntary contributions to the church is BIG.

[Moliere]

A big downside (one of the many) to the modern welfare state is that it can create a dependency on government for many people and enable laziness. I think the church strives to give a hand up, not just a hand out, and I think they do a pretty good job at it. I've been a financial clerk and I've seen what I view as abuse of the system by some folks and it bothered me. I think it happens less in the church than say government welfare, but it still happens. Like Goat, I've tried to have the attitude of not judging and just being grateful that I have the opportunity to contribute.

I fully agree with this. The FO program is the best one I've seen. It has its abusers at times, but the individuality of the whole process tends to limit the abuse. Most people receiving assistance know that money comes directly from the members with whom they worship each Sunday instead of in the form of a faceless check received in the mailbox. It is also almost never administered in cash, but in goods/services which also helps eliminate abuse and corruption.

It's not perfect, but it trumps any government run system out there. That being said, it could probably never work to the magnitude of a government run system.

[Moliere]

Currently, do funds for humanitarian aid come solely from fast offerings, and if so, with the new emphasis is that going to change?

Yes and no. There specific boxes on the donation slip for humanitarian aid and for fast offerings. Donations to humanitarian aid go to SLC and are used by the church (mainly the presiding bishopric) for a lot of the humanitarian aid work done throughout the world.

Fast offerings are typically kept at the stake level and tracked at the ward level. If there are more needs in a ward than can be funded by ward members, then the stake can allocate funds from another ward in the stake to help out. If a stake has excess funds (some affluent areas obviously fall in this area) then those are taken by SLC and used for other areas for fast offerings or used for humanitarian aid.

At least this is how I remember it working.

[UtahDan]

I can't think of how I really want to say this. I guess I'll just observe that putting helping live people on the same level of importance as helping dead people seems great to me.