Oaks is in favor of religious freedom

[Maximus]

Gays and their allies are the ones fighting for civil rights. It's ludicrous to suggest that Mormon marriages are at risk because of gay marriage.

The church has every right to speak on a moral issue.

[BlueHair]

Gays and blacks were the groups fighting for civil rights. The church is the one trying to crush that movement. That would make them comparable to the anti-black establishment if civil rights analogy is going to be used.

[BlueHair]

I don't have an answer, which is why I bring it up. I think it is hypocritical for someone to think sanctions are bad if the wrong side is engaging them, which is why I asked the white supremacy question. I also think there is a difference between economic sanctions designed to suppress voter support and economic sanctions for other reasons. I am very much a free-market person, and I firmly believe we should be able to do business with whomever we choose, but I also think people should be free to support whatever side of an issue they want. Like I said, I don't have any answers.

I am also for religious freedom and free markets. I can tell you one thing. If I had a gay child, I wouldn't support a friend's business if he was going to turn around and use that money to support Prop 8. He can spend his money where he wants, and so can I.

[SoonerCoug]

The church has every right to speak on a moral issue.

I never said they didn't have a legal right to do what they're doing.

If people really care about the Church, they should want the Church to stop fighting against civil rights for homosexuals. This only hurts the Church, and it doesn't help society at all.

This will be a heroic failure for the Church--another embarrassment for the ages.

The Church has all kinds of moral beliefs that they choose not promote as legislation. I don't see Church leaders trying to pass laws against adultery or alcohol or forcing non-Mormons to wear garments. Gays will be having sex whether they are married or not. This is about civil rights. If the immorality is gays having sex with each other, then they should be fighting to put sexually active gays in prison. This is about the Church fighting against equality for gays in society. They don't want gays to gain credibility.

Our Church is trying to promote laws that deny civil rights to people that want nothing to do with the Church. Do you see nothing wrong with that? It's no different from the Iranian government forcing non-Muslims to observe hijab. What if a Christian Iranian doesn't want to wear a bed sheet? Too bad--the dominant religion said hijab must be observed by all women.

Once again, if people really care about the Church, they should want Church leaders to stop waging war on gays. It's stupid, and it's not Christian.

[byu71]

Once again, if people really care about the Church, they should want Church leaders to stop waging war on gays. It's stupid, and it's not Christian.

I think a great deal of the populace, at least 50% are against gay marriage. Are you saying the church should not be against gay marriage because the church would be better off with your beliefs than the church leadership beliefs.

My guess is you would offer the same advice to other churches that take the same position as the LDS church. At times some of you seem like you are saying the church is the Lone Ranger in their position.

[il Padrino Ute]

Gays and blacks were the groups fighting for civil rights. The church is the one trying to crush that movement. That would make them comparable to the anti-black establishment if civil rights analogy is going to be used.

Then the gays should be upset at the blacks rather than the Mormons. More blacks than Mormons voted for Prop 8, no?

[SoonerCoug]

I think a great deal of the populace, at least 50% are against gay marriage. Are you saying the church should not be against gay marriage because the church would be better off with your beliefs than the churches leadership beliefs.

My guess is you would offer the same advice to other churches that take the same position as the LDS church. At times some of you seem like you are saying the church is the Lone Ranger in their position.

More than 50% of Americans also don't believe in evolution. I don't see what your point is. There are lots of ignorant people in America, including plenty of people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Do you think racism within the LDS Church has helped the Church?

I honestly think fighting civil rights for gays is akin to racism, of which there has been plenty in the LDS Church and other churches. It's not Christian.

The majority of people in Iran want to legislate Islamic Law, and they claim to be a democracy because majority rules. Majority opinion doesn't make it right. The measure of a democracy is how well it protects the rights of minorities.

[SoonerCoug]

Then the gays should be upset at the blacks rather than the Mormons. More blacks than Mormons voted for Prop 8, no?

In number or percentage? I'm curious.

[byu71]

More than 50% of Americans also don't believe in evolution. I don't see what your point is. There are lots of ignorant people in America, including plenty of people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Do you think racism within the LDS Church has helped the Church?

I honestly think fighting civil rights for gays is akin to racism, of which there has been plenty in the LDS Church and other churches. It's not Christian.

My point is because you think something doesn't make it so. I have listened to your arguments and find them unconvincing and hollow. I still like you though.

Oh, racism within any culture doesn't help that culture.

[il Padrino Ute]

In number or percentage? I'm curious.

Percentage isn't relative, as votes are counted by the number.

[SoonerCoug]

My point is because you think something doesn't make it so. I have listened to your arguments and find them unconvincing and hollow. I still like you though.

Oh, racism within any culture doesn't help that culture.

I edited my last post. Like I said, majority opinion doesn't make it right. The majority of southerners in the mid-19th century wanted slavery. So what? How can you call my argument hollow when you're making arguments implying that majority opinion is more important than civil rights for individuals.

[Maximus]

I edited my last post. Like I said, majority opinion doesn't make it right. The majority of southerners in the mid-19th century wanted slavery. So what? How can you call my argument hollow when you're making arguments implying that majority opinion is more important than civil rights for individuals.

Now you are comparing gay marriage to slavery.

[SoonerCoug]

Now you are comparing gay marriage to slavery.

Please read what I wrote and think about it. The point was about majority opinion sometimes being wrong. It's not saying that denial of gay marriage is akin to slavery.

[byu71]

I edited my last post. Like I said, majority opinion doesn't make it right. The majority of southerners in the mid-19th century wanted slavery. So what? How can you call my argument hollow when you're making arguments implying that majority opinion is more important than civil rights for individuals.

The majority of Americans elected Jimmy Carter, didn't make it right. I think you make my point. If I truly believe something or if the leaders of the church do, they shouldn't worry about public opinion. As you have stated, public opinion is always right.

By the way, I am against gay marriage, but I am not fervent enough to go out and work for it or give money to the cause. I listen to these debates that go on here and nothing has convinced me to change where I stand. Even accusations of not being politically correct and all that entails.

[SoonerCoug]

Percentage isn't relative, as votes are counted by the number.

So if 10% of blacks voted against gay marriage while 99% of Mormons voted against it, but blacks outnumber Mormons 11 to 1, then more blacks voted against gay marriage.