Oaks is in favor of religious freedom

[SoonerCoug]

The majority of Americans elected Jimmy Carter, didn't make it right. I think you make my point. If I truly believe something or if the leaders of the church do, they shouldn't worry about public opinion. As you have stated, public opinion is always right.

By the way, I am against gay marriage, but I am not fervent enough to go out and work for it or give money to the cause. I listen to these debates that go on here and nothing has convinced me to change where I stand. Even accusations of not being politically correct and all that entails.

Why do you have a problem with gay people being married?

[il Padrino Ute]

So if 10% of blacks voted against gay marriage while 99% of Mormons voted against it, but blacks outnumber Mormons 11 to 1, then more blacks voted against gay marriage.

I'm no math whiz, but that looks right. But my point is still valid. Votes are counted as single votes, not percentages, therefore, the percentage of a certain group voting for Prop 8 is irrelevant. My understanding is that there was a very large number of blacks that voted for Prop 8.

The bottom line is that the gay community needs to look at what they should have done in order to convince voters to vote against Prop 8, rather than blame the Mormons for it passing.

[byu71]

Why do you have a problem with gay people being married?

I believe it is a statement that traditional marriage is not the optimum relationship. I don't believe in living together having children without being married as something society should condone as a healthy alternative.

Myself, I choose not to marry, although I do believe marriage is the optimum relationship. I will admit it sometimes bugs me at church when I feel like an outcast. However, I don't resent or feel like lobbying the church against their constant preaching about growing up and getting married.

[SoonerCoug]

I'm no math whiz, but that looks right. But my point is still valid. Votes are counted as single votes, not percentages, therefore, the percentage of a certain group voting for Prop 8 is irrelevant. My understanding is that there was a very large number of blacks that voted for Prop 8.

The bottom line is that the gay community needs to look at what they should have done in order to convince voters to vote against Prop 8, rather than blame the Mormons for it passing.

I don't think gays will have to do much of anything other than wait a year or two. Within a generation, gay marriage will be completely accepted and for the next 100 years, Church members will be making excuses about why God didn't want gay marriage in 2008 but is OK with it in 2108.

[il Padrino Ute]

I don't think gays will have to do much of anything other than wait a year or two. Within a generation, gay marriage will be completely accepted and for the next 100 years, Church members will be be making excuses about why God didn't want gay marriage in 2008 but is OK with it in 2108.

I tend to agree with you that as the years go by, those who are against gay marriage will die off and be replaced with those who don't have a problem with it. But that doesn't change the fact that the gay community hasn't done enough to convince others to allow gay marriage. If they want marriage sooner than later, they need to figure out what they need to do to make it happen.

[SoonerCoug]

I tend to agree with you that as the years go by, those who are against gay marriage will die off and be replaced with those who don't have a problem with it. But that doesn't change the fact that the gay community hasn't done enough to convince others to allow gay marriage. If they want marriage sooner than later, they need to figure out what they need to do to make it happen.

I see your point. I also understand that Elder Oaks is trying to protect Mormons from backlash. Unfortunately, I think he might be making things worse.

[cowboy]

Why do you have a problem with gay people being married?

If you believed that God intended sexual relationships to be shared only between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage, what would your position be on gay marriage?

[byu71]

I see your point. I also understand that Elder Oaks is trying to protect Mormons from backlash. Unfortunately, I think he might be making things worse.

Here I could be easily persuaded to agree with you. What I have noticed is in politics, you open your mouth and it can be spun to the hilt by those who choose too. This goes for both sides of any issue. I really wish that weren't the case, but it is almost accepted as normal for the opposition to distort for personal gain.

I appreciate our brief back and forth was devoid of personal cheap shots. I am not above doing that, so I am happy with myself.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Because the laws can be construed that if you speak out against homos, you are spewing hate speech. Or you don't believe in that slippery slope?

The slippery slope is usually the argument that you use when don't have a good argument. Also, the biggest problem with the churches stance on issues relating to homosexuals is it legitimizes people like you who hate homosexuals.

[SoonerCoug]

If you believed that God intended sexual relationships to be shared only between a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage, what would your position be on gay marriage?

If you believe that drinking alcohol is wrong, what would your position be on liquor laws? Relax the liquor laws. That's exactly what the Church chose to do in Utah.

If you believe that polygamy is the new and everlasting covenant, but you can't practice polygamy and achieve statehood, then what would you do? Cease practicing polygamy.

The Church has gone against its beliefs in promoting legislation (and even changed its beliefs) because of political interests. I believe the Church is against gay marriage because they are concerned about the possibility of it leading to gay marriage in the temple, but I don't see how the government could force Mormons to allow gays to marry in the temple. I think this is an irrational fear. In fact, I don't see why any gays would want to be a part of the Church.

[Fiyero]

I had some trouble with the southern legal system. Should I compare myself to Tom Robinson in To Kill A Mockingbird? I was slapped in the face with the concept of "we don't care what the evidence shows, we don't care what the facts are, we don't care what you've been awarded out west; we'll do what we want to whomever we want, and we'll award what we want to our own."

Should I go on Oprah and call myself a modern-day Mockingbird?

[thesaint258]

I see your point. I also understand that Elder Oaks is trying to protect Mormons from backlash. Unfortunately, I think he might be making things worse.

I'm not sure if that was his purpose (or at least the primary purpose). How often is a devotional address given to the AP? Part of me wonders if Elder Oaks and the rest of the brethren wanted to bring the issue to the forefront again. I don't know why, but I have the feeling that there's more behind it than an apostle giving a simple address at BYU-Idaho.

[BlueHair]

Then the gays should be upset at the blacks rather than the Mormons. More blacks than Mormons voted for Prop 8, no?

I think gays have a right to be upset at anyone they choose to be upset with. Like I've said before, I have no problem with people choosing to believe whatever they want. Live and let live. If the church doesn't want to marry gay people, fine. But don't tell the Justice of the Peace that he can't.

[byu71]

I think gays have a right to be upset at anyone they choose to be upset with. Like I've said before, I have no problem with people choosing to believe whatever they want. Live and let live. If the church doesn't want to marry gay people, fine. But don't tell the Justice of the Peace that he can't.

I think if the law of the land becomes gay marriage is lawful, the church won't be telling the Justice of the Peace he can't.

[Jarid in Cedar]

If you believe that drinking alcohol is wrong, what would your position be on liquor laws? Relax the liquor laws. That's exactly what the Church chose to do in Utah.

If you believe that polygamy is the new and everlasting covenant, but you can't practice polygamy and achieve statehood, then what would you do? Cease practicing polygamy.

The Church has gone against its beliefs in promoting legislation (and even changed its beliefs) because of political interests. I believe the Church is against gay marriage because they are concerned about the possibility of it leading to gay marriage in the temple, but I don't see how the government could force Mormons to allow gays to marry in the temple. I think this is an irrational fear. In fact, I don't see why any gays would want to be a part of the Church.

While I can see why it would be difficult to be gay and a member of the church, I can see plenty of reasons that someone would want to be a member.