Oaks is in favor of religious freedom

[beefytee]

Don't we recognize the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Isn't marriage and family an integral part of the pursuit of happiness?

That's a slippery slope isn't it? Some people might consider drugs an integral part of the pursuit of happiness. How about marrying a ferris wheel?

What is the relationship of the Declaration of independence and the Constitution? Would an argument referring to the DOI hold up in court.

Forgive my ignorance, but the constitution doesn't mention this does it?

[thesaint258]

Don't we recognize the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Isn't marriage and family an integral part of the pursuit of happiness?

But that doesn't mean that the pursuit of happiness is unrestricted.

[KillerDog]

When was the last time a law was passed (or even proposed) in the U.S. that impinged on religious freedom?

Educate me.

I think the movement against prayer in school and religious clubs in schools and religious songs in schools are great examples of laws that interfere with the free exercise of religion.

[il Padrino Ute]

Don't we recognize the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Isn't marriage and family an integral part of the pursuit of happiness?

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not in the Constitution, but the Declaration of Independence.

[KillerDog]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not in the Constitution, but the Declaration of Independence.

That's true. The Constitution says "life, liberty and property" or something like that. Funny that property and pursuit of happiness are equated.

[beefytee]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not in the Constitution, but the Declaration of Independence.

I see where he got the idea from now:

The phrase "pursuit of happiness" appeared in the 1967 U.S. Supreme Court case, Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[4], which focused on an anti-miscegenation statute. Chief Justice Warren wrote: "The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness#.22Pursuit_of_happiness.22_in_judicial_rulings

I guess he is agreeing with Warren.

[KillerDog]

I'm very curious, it has been indicated here and in the papers that Dallin Oaks said the treatment of Mormons in response to prop 8 was similar to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I took that to be true because I have heard many people compare clearly disproportionate things in an effort to draw attention to their own political/religious interests. I have now found the following quote which caused all of the furor:

"In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation."

Does that quote say that the treatment of the Mormons was comparable to the treatment of the blacks? No. It says the effect of the treatment of the Mormons after Prop. 8 was like the effect of the voter-intimidation of the blacks that produced the federal civil rights legislation. Are there other quotes that say something different that I missed? If there aren't about 80% of this thread is based on a nonsensical supposition.

[DU Ute]

Are there other quotes that say something different that I missed? If there aren't about 80% of this thread is based on a nonsensical supposition.

I think you should be banned for trying to undermine CUF's longstanding tradition of nonsensical supposition.

[KillerDog]

I think you should be banned for trying to undermine CUF's longstanding tradition of nonsensical supposition.

I'm just really intrigued. With so many brilliant minds on the board dedicating so much effort to criticising the Mormon Church's position on gay marriage, I thought someone would actually have read Oaks speech and prepared a critique of it. Instead I found that they took the fear mongering of the gay rights group as presented by the print media, and attacked that. I suppose it is easier to attack a paraphrase than a quote and a newspaper report is probably easier to argue with than a mind like Oaks.

On a side note, I got in a discussion with Dallin Oaks one time about BYU's Honor Code. I didn't change my position on the subject but I came away knowing that I had received an ass kicking.

[SoCalCoug]

That's a slippery slope isn't it?

Of course it is. But what part of the slope is marriage on? I'd say it's well on the safe side.

Some people might consider drugs an integral part of the pursuit of happiness. How about marrying a ferris wheel?

I think most reasonable people would agree those are on the other side of the slope from marriage to another adult.

What is the relationship of the Declaration of independence and the Constitution? Would an argument referring to the DOI hold up in court.

One of the founding principles of this nation is the "inalienable" right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Are you saying that these "inalienable" rights were abrogated within twelve years by the Constitution?

[SoCalCoug]

I see where he got the idea from now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness#.22Pursuit_of_happiness.22_in_judicial_rulings

I guess he is agreeing with Warren.

You give me way too much credit.

[TheBYUGuy]

I'm very curious, it has been indicated here and in the papers that Dallin Oaks said the treatment of Mormons in response to prop 8 was similar to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I took that to be true because I have heard many people compare clearly disproportionate things in an effort to draw attention to their own political/religious interests. I have now found the following quote which caused all of the furor:

"In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation."

Does that quote say that the treatment of the Mormons was comparable to the treatment of the blacks? No. It says the effect of the treatment of the Mormons after Prop. 8 was like the effect of the voter-intimidation of the blacks that produced the federal civil rights legislation. Are there other quotes that say something different that I missed? If there aren't about 80% of this thread is based on a nonsensical supposition.

That's exactly what I was saying here. The Trib and SU are trying to turn Oaks's comments into "Mormons think they have been raped, pillaged, and nuked by the gays," when Oaks was just saying that voter intimidation leads to a similar end result.

[kccougar]

I'm very curious, it has been indicated here and in the papers that Dallin Oaks said the treatment of Mormons in response to prop 8 was similar to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I took that to be true because I have heard many people compare clearly disproportionate things in an effort to draw attention to their own political/religious interests. I have now found the following quote which caused all of the furor:

"In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation."

Does that quote say that the treatment of the Mormons was comparable to the treatment of the blacks? No. It says the effect of the treatment of the Mormons after Prop. 8 was like the effect of the voter-intimidation of the blacks that produced the federal civil rights legislation. Are there other quotes that say something different that I missed? If there aren't about 80% of this thread is based on a nonsensical supposition.

Thanks for pointing that out. It had stood out to me the first time I read the article, but I didn't feel comfortable enough in my ability to defend my opinion to finish quoting and hitting submit.

[JohnnyLingo]

Absolute silence from certain posters who have been very loud in this thread so far speaks volumes.

[LA Ute]

I'm very curious, it has been indicated here and in the papers that Dallin Oaks said the treatment of Mormons in response to prop 8 was similar to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. I took that to be true because I have heard many people compare clearly disproportionate things in an effort to draw attention to their own political/religious interests. I have now found the following quote which caused all of the furor:

"In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation."

Does that quote say that the treatment of the Mormons was comparable to the treatment of the blacks? No. It says the effect of the treatment of the Mormons after Prop. 8 was like the effect of the voter-intimidation of the blacks that produced the federal civil rights legislation. Are there other quotes that say something different that I missed? If there aren't about 80% of this thread is based on a nonsensical supposition.