Gay Marriage and the Bible

[Jeff Lebowski]

For those of you fatigued with the whole Prop 8/gay marriage debate, please move along.

For the rest of you, Newsweek had a pretty interesting cover story this week on the issue of biblical justification for/against gay marriage:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/172653

In the same issue, there was another article about a gay couple who "had" a child while they lived in New England and then split up. One of the pair moved back to Virginia and re-converted to her Baptist faith - denouncing her former homosexuality as a grave sin. They are now locked in a bitter custody battle. Interesting story and it brings up some questions about whether it is possible for one state to not recognize marriages in another state. Here is the link:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/172554?tid=relatedcl

[pelagius]

Count me among the fatigued but I did notice that Elder Bruce D. Porter was part of a response to the article (and the response is interesting, I think, for several reasons (e.g., polygamy)):

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2008/12/no_case_for_homosexuality_in_b.html

[Jeff Lebowski]

Count me among the fatigued but I did notice that Elder Bruce D. Porter was part of a response to the article (and the response is interesting, I think, for several reasons (e.g., polygamy)):

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...lity_in_b.html

Interesting. I happen to know Elder Porter. Very bright guy. Nevertheless, I was not impressed with the rebuttal. I thought this part was particularly weak:

Proponents of homosexual marriage suggest that the Bible has been twisted to support many dubious moral positions, which is true enough--and the metaphor most often used in this context is race. Didn't some Bible readers once condone negro slavery? Well, some Bible readers today object to same-sex marriage.



The comparison is facile and self-congratulatory. As the vote in California this November revealed, it is overwhelmingly rejected by African-Americans, who are, after all, the ones who should know. For that matter, the racial epithets hurled at African-Americans in California after the election suggests that gay activists aren't serious about the comparison, anyway. It is, for them, merely a handy stick with which to beat those Newsweek dismisses as fundamentalists.

The manner in which the AA voters responded is proof? Wow. That's a real stretch. Ditto for the racial epithet example.

Bruce is capable of much better logic than this.

[tooblue]

Interesting. I happen to know Elder Porter. Very bright guy. Nevertheless, I was not impressed with the rebuttal. I thought this part was particularly weak:



The manner in which the AA voters responded is proof? Wow. That's a real stretch. Ditto for the racial epithet example.

Bruce is capable of much better logic than this.

While there might have been some weakness in the rebuttal -- no more than in the article in Newsweek -- there is some strong logic:

The Bible offers no support for homosexual marriage. Christianity teaches love, mercy, and forgiveness for those who do bad things, true enough. Look, for example, at the story in the Gospel of John where Jesus offers his divine love, mercy, and forgiveness to a woman guilty of adultery. He shamed those who would stone her. He taught us all that we are sinners and often hypocrites. And then he told her, "Go and sin no more." He did not reinterpret the Old Testament to proclaim adultery another life-style choice. (my emphasis)

[pelagius]

While there might have been some weakness in the rebuttal -- no more than in the article in Newsweek -- there is some strong logic:

Plus the phrase "gentle goo" is great ... that was worth the price of admission.

[Jeff Lebowski]

While there might have been some weakness in the rebuttal -- no more than in the article in Newsweek -- there is some strong logic:

One of my favorite NT stories. But much like the AA voter example, it does nothing to make the case either way.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I thought the last line in the article was the best:

Hypocrites pretend they have no sin. Hedonists pretend their sins are good. Honest people repent.

[tooblue]

One of my favorite NT stories. But much like the AA voter example, it does nothing to make the case either way.

I do not like other example either but citing the NT story does expose a fundamental flaw in the argument of the Newsweek article ... ergo it does make the case.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I do not like other example either but citing the NT story does expose a fundamental flaw in the argument of the Newsweek article ... ergo it does make the case.

No it doesn't. The story has nothing to do with gay marriage. And it most certainly doesn't prove that everything in the OT should currently be observed to the letter.

[tooblue]

No it doesn't. The story has nothing to do with gay marriage. And it most certainly doesn't prove that everything in the OT should currently be observed to the letter.

The story HAS everything to do with gay marriage. It makes the case that Christ like love is much more than mere tolerance.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The story HAS everything to do with gay marriage. It makes the case that Christ like love is much more than mere tolerance.

It's a great story. But no one is arguing that there is no such thing as sin. The argument is whether or not the bible can be a foolproof and definitive catalog of all sins; past, present, and future.

[tooblue]

It's a great story. But no one is arguing that there is no such thing as sin. The argument is whether or not the bible can be a foolproof and definitive catalog of all sins; past, present, and future.

I understand what you are saying about the Bible being a foolproof catalog. However we, as in most persons here on this board, consider Christ the perfect example of whom to follow in regards to all moral issues. And as a perfect example Christ did not tolerate the adulterous woman’s sins ... and he therefore did not tolerate her lifestyle.

[ERCougar]

I need to read this article, but I did listen to a discussion between the author and a man from some bible college on NPR the other day. I didn't hear the whole thing, but he was very articulate and I was a little surprised at how unprepared she was to discuss some of the issues. I don't recall specifics, so this is fairly useless. Sorry. Did anyone else hear it?

[tooblue]

I need to read this article, but I did listen to a discussion between the author and a man from some bible college on NPR the other day. I didn't hear the whole thing, but he was very articulate and I was a little surprised at how unprepared she was to discuss some of the issues. I don't recall specifics, so this is fairly useless. Sorry. Did anyone else hear it?

No, but I would be interested in listening to it.

[SCcoug]

Here is an NPR interview about it. Maybe this is it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98279341