General Conference Predictions

[Jeff Lebowski]

Pouting is just as unbecoming as superciliousness.

Pouting? Is this the thanks I get for following your kind advice?

[RC Vikings]

BKP called for those with gay tendencies to avoid those feelings and live a chaste life. One argument I've heard is that people that have pedophile tendencies are required to fight their urges. Can you really put these two into the same category? We have single ladies in our ward who have never had the opportunity to marry and it looks like a lonely life. Is it fair to expect a gay person who has found someone they love not to act on it and avoid this lifetime of loneliness?

[bluegoose]

Don't let your gay son bring his partner home for holidays because it would set a bad example for younger people? Really? Don't expect us to be seen with you and your partner in public? Who thinks that way anymore? Just the opposite seems true to me. It's a terrible example to tell your gay son he can't bring his partner to your home. It's a terrible example to not want to be seen with your gay son and his partner.

I've got a little insight into this. Forgive the long post. I couldn't see how to shorten it and still get my point across.

We had a similar decision to make a few years ago with regards to our family gatherings. My brother has been openly gay for several years now and has been involved in a committed, monogamous relationship with a partner of about 3 years. My brother has three young kids from his marriage, while his partner has 2 kids from his previous marriage. As shocking as this may sound, all 5 of the kids are kind, courteous, loving, well-adjusted kids.

My brother is so much happier in this relationship than he was in his marriage, its hard to imagine how or why he stayed in his heterosexual relationship as long as he did. Well, its not really hard to understand why he stayed in as long as he did, as that is what was expected of him his whole life. He took to heart the counsel of past church leaders, that if he made the commitment to a heterosexual relationship that his SSA appetites would be “cured”.

Some of you may remember some mild family angst last year about how to handle family gatherings with my brother's new partner. I come from a fairly hard-line LDS family, with my dad and my older sister being particularly against SSA, both actively campaigning for Prop 8 a couple of years ago.

It was finally agreed upon that having my brother involved in the family gatherings was more important than excluding him because of his homosexual relationship. His partner was enthusiastically encouraged to attend our Thanksgiving get-together, even being invited to stay with his kids in my parents home for the weekend.

His (partner's) kids are 13 and 15 year old boys, who after making the initial introductions to the other cousins, became just as comfortable tearing apart the house as were the rest of the kids. Same situation for my bro's partner. They were not overly affectionate, so displaying their “gayness” was a non-issue. My wife did round the corner into the kitchen once to find them playing a little game of graba**, but this was just written off as young love. There was absolutely no visible anxiety or uncomfortable public moments with any members of the family. All of my kids and their cousins, with the oldest being 10 at the time, took it completely in stride. He was my brothers good friend and that was that.

Our weekend activities were not confined to the relative safety of the home, as we ventured out into the community several times for dinner and other outings. Again, no uncomfortable moments, even as my parents ran into several of their church friends, including Steve Cleveland's brother, who is a Bishop in their stake.

Thank goodness we didn't take the same approach advocated in that newsroom article. My brother once again feels part of the family, as for some time he wouldn't attend any family get-togethers. Since that time, he has continued to attend various family gatherings with his partner, including a huge family reunion last summer involving 50+ people. They were also very warmly received there by all.

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I've got a little insight into this. Forgive the long post. I couldn't see how to shorten it and still get my point across.

We had a similar decision to make a few years ago with regards to our family gatherings. My brother has been openly gay for several years now and has been involved in a committed, monogamous relationship with a partner of about 3 years. My brother has three young kids from his marriage, while his partner has 2 kids from his previous marriage. As shocking as this may sound, all 5 of the kids are kind, courteous, loving, well-adjusted kids.

My brother is so much happier in this relationship than he was in his marriage, its hard to imagine how or why he stayed in his heterosexual relationship as long as he did. Well, its not really hard to understand why he stayed in as long as he did, as that is what was expected of him his whole life. He took to heart the counsel of past church leaders, that if he made the commitment to a heterosexual relationship that his SSA appetites would be “cured”.

Some of you may remember some mild family angst last year about how to handle family gatherings with my brother's new partner. I come from a fairly hard-line LDS family, with my dad and my older sister being particularly against SSA, both actively campaigning for Prop 8 a couple of years ago.

It was finally agreed upon that having my brother involved in the family gatherings was more important than excluding him because of his homosexual relationship. His partner was enthusiastically encouraged to attend our Thanksgiving get-together, even being invited to stay with his kids in my parents home for the weekend.

His (partner's) kids are 13 and 15 year old boys, who after making the initial introductions to the other cousins, became just as comfortable tearing apart the house as were the rest of the kids. Same situation for my bro's partner. They were not overly affectionate, so displaying their “gayness” was a non-issue. My wife did round the corner into the kitchen once to find them playing a little game of graba**, but this was just written off as young love. There was absolutely no visible anxiety or uncomfortable public moments with any members of the family. All of my kids and their cousins, with the oldest being 10 at the time, took it completely in stride. He was my brothers good friend and that was that.

Our weekend activities were not confined to the relative safety of the home, as we ventured out into the community several times for dinner and other outings. Again, no uncomfortable moments, even as my parents ran into several of their church friends, including Steve Cleveland's brother, who is a Bishop in their stake.

Thank goodness we didn't take the same approach advocated in that newsroom article. My brother once again feels part of the family, as for some time he wouldn't attend any family get-togethers. Since that time, he has continued to attend various family gatherings with his partner, including a huge family reunion last summer involving 50+ people. They were also very warmly received there by all.

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

Bravo to your family. That is a great story.

[LA Ute]

I've got a little insight into this. Forgive the long post. I couldn't see how to shorten it and still get my point across.

We had a similar decision to make a few years ago with regards to our family gatherings. My brother has been openly gay for several years now and has been involved in a committed, monogamous relationship with a partner of about 3 years. My brother has three young kids from his marriage, while his partner has 2 kids from his previous marriage. As shocking as this may sound, all 5 of the kids are kind, courteous, loving, well-adjusted kids.

My brother is so much happier in this relationship than he was in his marriage, its hard to imagine how or why he stayed in his heterosexual relationship as long as he did. Well, its not really hard to understand why he stayed in as long as he did, as that is what was expected of him his whole life. He took to heart the counsel of past church leaders, that if he made the commitment to a heterosexual relationship that his SSA appetites would be “cured”.

Some of you may remember some mild family angst last year about how to handle family gatherings with my brother's new partner. I come from a fairly hard-line LDS family, with my dad and my older sister being particularly against SSA, both actively campaigning for Prop 8 a couple of years ago.

It was finally agreed upon that having my brother involved in the family gatherings was more important than excluding him because of his homosexual relationship. His partner was enthusiastically encouraged to attend our Thanksgiving get-together, even being invited to stay with his kids in my parents home for the weekend.

His (partner's) kids are 13 and 15 year old boys, who after making the initial introductions to the other cousins, became just as comfortable tearing apart the house as were the rest of the kids. Same situation for my bro's partner. They were not overly affectionate, so displaying their “gayness” was a non-issue. My wife did round the corner into the kitchen once to find them playing a little game of graba**, but this was just written off as young love. There was absolutely no visible anxiety or uncomfortable public moments with any members of the family. All of my kids and their cousins, with the oldest being 10 at the time, took it completely in stride. He was my brothers good friend and that was that.

Our weekend activities were not confined to the relative safety of the home, as we ventured out into the community several times for dinner and other outings. Again, no uncomfortable moments, even as my parents ran into several of their church friends, including Steve Cleveland's brother, who is a Bishop in their stake.

Thank goodness we didn't take the same approach advocated in that newsroom article. My brother once again feels part of the family, as for some time he wouldn't attend any family get-togethers. Since that time, he has continued to attend various family gatherings with his partner, including a huge family reunion last summer involving 50+ people. They were also very warmly received there by all.

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

Great example. That's how I'd try to handle such a set of circumstances if it ever arose in my family.

[TripletDaddy]

Bluegoose, that is a nice story.

The common theme in these sort of success stories seems to be a willingness on both sides to be respectful of the other.

I tend to agree that telling a child that you don't want to be seen with him or her in public (along with partner) sends a fairly cold message and will do little to foster growth or closeness. It is also somewhat of a ridiculous statement given that Church leaders have met publicly and knowingly with gay people. You can hang with them without being one of them, people.

[CardiacCoug]

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

Thanks for the update and the great post.

[Pheidippides]

I've got a little insight into this. Forgive the long post. I couldn't see how to shorten it and still get my point across.

We had a similar decision to make a few years ago with regards to our family gatherings. My brother has been openly gay for several years now and has been involved in a committed, monogamous relationship with a partner of about 3 years. My brother has three young kids from his marriage, while his partner has 2 kids from his previous marriage. As shocking as this may sound, all 5 of the kids are kind, courteous, loving, well-adjusted kids.

My brother is so much happier in this relationship than he was in his marriage, its hard to imagine how or why he stayed in his heterosexual relationship as long as he did. Well, its not really hard to understand why he stayed in as long as he did, as that is what was expected of him his whole life. He took to heart the counsel of past church leaders, that if he made the commitment to a heterosexual relationship that his SSA appetites would be “cured”.

Some of you may remember some mild family angst last year about how to handle family gatherings with my brother's new partner. I come from a fairly hard-line LDS family, with my dad and my older sister being particularly against SSA, both actively campaigning for Prop 8 a couple of years ago.

It was finally agreed upon that having my brother involved in the family gatherings was more important than excluding him because of his homosexual relationship. His partner was enthusiastically encouraged to attend our Thanksgiving get-together, even being invited to stay with his kids in my parents home for the weekend.

His (partner's) kids are 13 and 15 year old boys, who after making the initial introductions to the other cousins, became just as comfortable tearing apart the house as were the rest of the kids. Same situation for my bro's partner. They were not overly affectionate, so displaying their “gayness” was a non-issue. My wife did round the corner into the kitchen once to find them playing a little game of graba**, but this was just written off as young love. There was absolutely no visible anxiety or uncomfortable public moments with any members of the family. All of my kids and their cousins, with the oldest being 10 at the time, took it completely in stride. He was my brothers good friend and that was that.

Our weekend activities were not confined to the relative safety of the home, as we ventured out into the community several times for dinner and other outings. Again, no uncomfortable moments, even as my parents ran into several of their church friends, including Steve Cleveland's brother, who is a Bishop in their stake.

Thank goodness we didn't take the same approach advocated in that newsroom article. My brother once again feels part of the family, as for some time he wouldn't attend any family get-togethers. Since that time, he has continued to attend various family gatherings with his partner, including a huge family reunion last summer involving 50+ people. They were also very warmly received there by all.

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

This is the exact opposite of the path that my grandparents/parents took with my uncle. The results are the opposite too. A very large part of me wonders if my uncle would have been normally gay instead of actively and obnoxiously gay (I'm having a hard time explaining it) if he had have been loved instead of shunned and expelled. Even close to the end of life as they are, my grandparents refuse to talk to my uncle a lot of the time and have written him out of their will. A sad state to be sure.

[UtahDan]

BKP called for those with gay tendencies to avoid those feelings and live a chaste life. One argument I've heard is that people that have pedophile tendencies are required to fight their urges. Can you really put these two into the same category? We have single ladies in our ward who have never had the opportunity to marry and it looks like a lonely life. Is it fair to expect a gay person who has found someone they love not to act on it and avoid this lifetime of loneliness?

I agree with you that persons who desires harm others and a persons who have no opportunity to act on desires are not good analogies to a persons who have the opportunity and are not harming anyone.

[UtahDan]

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

What a great story. I think that a great deal of the issue here for people is fear of the unknown.

[Maximus]

I've addressed that already. I think it's silly and cruel, and it's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the tortured "God wouldn't do that, therefore he didn't" logic. It's just stupid. Both Oaks and BKP employ it, despite it being unnecessary, as you've stated. They aren't just trying to uphold the official doctrine while looking for ways to stay in harmony with the facts. It's about ignoring the facts and just plowing forward with the old doctrine. That's not a recipe for sustainability, or for embracing the educated membership.

I still think you are misrepresenting what he said. I think he is saying why would God make someone be gay and not allow them to overcome the temptation to act on gay feelings? The doctrine is clear, there is no temptation that we can not over come (IE not submit to, or do that sin.) While people are born gay, and can not get rid of their feelings, they can overcome the temptation to act on them. How is that so offensive?

[woot]

I still think you are misrepresenting what he said. I think he is saying why would God make someone be gay and not allow them to overcome the temptation to act on gay feelings? The doctrine is clear, there is no temptation that we can not over come (IE not submit to, or do that sin.) While people are born gay, and can not get rid of their feelings, they can overcome the temptation to act on them. How is that so offensive?

That's not what he said.

[creekster]

That's not what he said.

What he said was ambiguous. You are choosing to assign an unambiguous meaning to his words. One alternative is that he chose his words to refelct his ideas but so as not to be inconsistent with what the church has said through others on the topic. IMO, this is more likely to be correct in the context of his speech. But due to the ambiguity in his words none of us will know exactly what hemeant unless and until he clarifies.

I agree that he looks very ill.

[Moliere]

That's not what he said.

I've read the quote many times. You can read it either way. Honestly, you can. Try it and you will see that you can read it either way. It seems though that with the scripture that is cited right after he makes that quote, he is leaning more towards how Maximus is interpreting the quote.

[OhioBlue]

I've got a little insight into this. Forgive the long post. I couldn't see how to shorten it and still get my point across.

We had a similar decision to make a few years ago with regards to our family gatherings. My brother has been openly gay for several years now and has been involved in a committed, monogamous relationship with a partner of about 3 years. My brother has three young kids from his marriage, while his partner has 2 kids from his previous marriage. As shocking as this may sound, all 5 of the kids are kind, courteous, loving, well-adjusted kids.

My brother is so much happier in this relationship than he was in his marriage, its hard to imagine how or why he stayed in his heterosexual relationship as long as he did. Well, its not really hard to understand why he stayed in as long as he did, as that is what was expected of him his whole life. He took to heart the counsel of past church leaders, that if he made the commitment to a heterosexual relationship that his SSA appetites would be “cured”.

Some of you may remember some mild family angst last year about how to handle family gatherings with my brother's new partner. I come from a fairly hard-line LDS family, with my dad and my older sister being particularly against SSA, both actively campaigning for Prop 8 a couple of years ago.

It was finally agreed upon that having my brother involved in the family gatherings was more important than excluding him because of his homosexual relationship. His partner was enthusiastically encouraged to attend our Thanksgiving get-together, even being invited to stay with his kids in my parents home for the weekend.

His (partner's) kids are 13 and 15 year old boys, who after making the initial introductions to the other cousins, became just as comfortable tearing apart the house as were the rest of the kids. Same situation for my bro's partner. They were not overly affectionate, so displaying their “gayness” was a non-issue. My wife did round the corner into the kitchen once to find them playing a little game of graba**, but this was just written off as young love. There was absolutely no visible anxiety or uncomfortable public moments with any members of the family. All of my kids and their cousins, with the oldest being 10 at the time, took it completely in stride. He was my brothers good friend and that was that.

Our weekend activities were not confined to the relative safety of the home, as we ventured out into the community several times for dinner and other outings. Again, no uncomfortable moments, even as my parents ran into several of their church friends, including Steve Cleveland's brother, who is a Bishop in their stake.

Thank goodness we didn't take the same approach advocated in that newsroom article. My brother once again feels part of the family, as for some time he wouldn't attend any family get-togethers. Since that time, he has continued to attend various family gatherings with his partner, including a huge family reunion last summer involving 50+ people. They were also very warmly received there by all.

Not only has his “full” acceptance into the family been healthy for my brother and his new family, but I think it has also been very positive for our family in general. Everyone has been forced to overcome some pre-conceived fears and prejudices, and I think that we've all learned that unconditional love can extend beyond the traditional family structure without compromising what some would consider to be their traditional family values.

Awesome. A true Christian family. Thanks for sharing.