Michael Moore is back at it

[byu71]

It's funny that the worst insult conservatives hurl at liberals is that they are too compassionate. They have no problem with the Bush administration illegally spying on US citizens, going to war under false pretenses, and detaining people without trial, but they have a problem if someone could possibly get a handout. Doesn't sound real Christian to me. I'm no authority on the Bible, but I don't remember Christ condemning those with charity. I can't see how Christians can be part of the conservative movement. They hold such contempt for the less fortunate. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. I'm pretty sure Christ condemned the hypocrite.

I am a Libertarian, but if I had to choose between spending tax dollars on social projects like health care or killing people to secure their oil, I'd choose the health care package. They both lead to bankruptcy, but health care seems like a better choice.

I too have grown tired of policing the world and worrying about our supposed enemies. I think we should disband all military spending and the military. Let's take our chances the world is really a bunch of nice people who will treat us fairly when we totally disarm.

[il Padrino Ute]

It's funny that the worst insult conservatives hurl at liberals is that they are too compassionate. They have no problem with the Bush administration illegally spying on US citizens, going to war under false pretenses, and detaining people without trial, but they have a problem if someone could possibly get a handout. Doesn't sound real Christian to me. I'm no authority on the Bible, but I don't remember Christ condemning those with charity. I can't see how Christians can be part of the conservative movement. They hold such contempt for the less fortunate. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. I'm pretty sure Christ condemned the hypocrite.

I am a Libertarian, but if I had to choose between spending tax dollars on social projects like health care or killing people to secure their oil, I'd choose the health care package. They both lead to bankruptcy, but health care seems like a better choice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Bush fan. The Patriot Act really pissed me off. But I thought we were comparing people in the entertainment industry, not politicians.

As for compassion, are liberals truly compassionate? There policies have created how many generations of dependence on now bankrupt or on the verge of being bankrupt programs? Liberals policies tell people that they can't succeed because of the color of their skin. It's the exact opposite of Dr. King's dream.

If you want to talk healthcare, Obamacare is not the best way to go about it. Everything that he wants will be much too expensive and the only way to do it is to increase taxes for all, including those that Obama and the liberals claim they care about.

And if you want to talk about oil, the liberals have created more dependency on foreign oil by blocking pretty much every attempt to ween the US off of foreign oil and drilling for it in our land. We still need oil until we can find a better alternative and I'd much rather use our own than foreign oil, but that isn't happening because of liberal policies.

[il Padrino Ute]

The proof is in the pudding. No WMDs were found. A reasonable, sane person would not overthrow another sovereign nation on a "maybe".

You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again:

Has it ever been proven that Bush knew there were no WMDs in Iraq before this alleged lie was told?

[BlueHair]

I too have grown tired of policing the world and worrying about our supposed enemies. I think we should disband all military spending and the military. Let's take our chances the world is really a bunch of nice people who will treat us fairly when we totally disarm.

I'm glad you have come around.

[byu71]

I'm glad you have come around.

Way to difuse my highly sarcastic and provocative post. You PUD.

[BlueHair]

You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again:

Has it ever been proven that Bush knew there were no WMDs in Iraq before this alleged lie was told?

Yes. Bush said they were there and they weren't. How is that not proof? He didn't say they might have WMDs and then was proven wrong later. He said they have WMDs. That means he claimed to have knowledge that he did not have.

[BlueHair]

Way to difuse my highly sarcastic and provocative post. You PUD.

Why are you calling me a Planned Unit Development? What have I ever done to you?

Do you really think ALL of our meddling around the world is necessary? I'll concede a small portion of it is, but spreading our military so thin doesn't make it stronger.

[il Padrino Ute]

Yes. Bush said they were there and they weren't. How is that not proof? He didn't say they might have WMDs and then was proven wrong later. He said they have WMDs. That means he claimed to have knowledge that he did not have.

Bush received faulty information that there were WMDs in Iraq. He wasn't told that there were no WMDs and then announced that there were.

Of course, the same information Bush received was the same that the Senate received and that was good enough for 95 Senators to vote to use force. So if we're going to call Bush a liar, we have to call those Senator liars as well, because they knew exactly what Bush knew. They were in cahoots with the President, no?

[byu71]

Why are you calling me a Planned Unit Development? What have I ever done to you?

Do you really think ALL of our meddling around the world is necessary? I'll concede a small portion of it is, but spreading our military so thin doesn't make it stronger.

I actually think we could come to some kind of agreement. I would be happy to hear arguments for our pulling out of say Germany and South Korea.

The only thing you did to me was not bite on my well laid trap. It could set a bad example for others.

[BlueHair]

Bush received faulty information that there were WMDs in Iraq. He wasn't told that there were no WMDs and then announced that there were.

Of course, the same information Bush received was the same that the Senate received and that was good enough for 95 Senators to vote to use force. So if we're going to call Bush a liar, we have to call those Senator liars as well, because they knew exactly what Bush knew. They were in cahoots with the President, no?

The Bush administration sold it to Congress with exaggerated evidence:

On August 26, 2002, in an address to the national convention of the Veteran of Foreign Wars, Cheney flatly declared: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." In fact, former CIA Director George Tenet later recalled, Cheney's assertions went well beyond his agency's assessments at the time. Another CIA official, referring to the same speech, told journalist Ron Suskind, "Our reaction was, 'Where is he getting this stuff from?' "

[BlueHair]

The Bush administration sold it to Congress with exaggerated evidence:

Here is a link to the complete speech:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-082602.htm

[il Padrino Ute]

The Bush administration sold it to Congress with exaggerated evidence:

On August 26, 2002, in an address to the national convention of the Veteran of Foreign Wars, Cheney flatly declared: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." In fact, former CIA Director George Tenet later recalled, Cheney's assertions went well beyond his agency's assessments at the time. Another CIA official, referring to the same speech, told journalist Ron Suskind, "Our reaction was, 'Where is he getting this stuff from?' "

Ok, I'll concede that Bush sold it to Congress. But you still haven't shown evidence that Bush knew it was a lie, because it was the information he had received, which turned out to be wrong.

Again, I'm not a fan of Bush, but I just can't accept that Bush knowingly lied about it. That has never been proven.

[woot]

Getting back to documentaries, I saw a couple documentaries recently, and I think they demonstrate a good point.

The first is Food, Inc., which I absolutely adored. It's very powerful, is full of information and motivation, and only stoops to emotional manipulation a couple of times. It caused me to read several books on the topic and has motivated me to change the way I eat. Above all, this film was very entertaining, which is imperative for a movie of any sort.

The other is Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices. This one made a few good points, but it only had a few points to make, so it stretched them out to extreme length and added all sorts of emotional manipulation onto every point to make them seem like better points than they actually are. I walked away thinking that while Walmart is not being responsible in a few areas and should definitely change some unethical practices, I would still shop there if I had one near me. Mostly though this movie was extremely boring. Not good.

The difference between these two films is apparent, in that Food Inc has had a decent box office run in limited release, was almost universally loved by critics (97% on rotten tomatoes), and stands to do even better on DVD. Walmart, on the other hand, didn't even get a box office release, going straight to DVD.

It's been quite a while, but as I recall, MM's movies are very entertaining, even if they aren't always accurate. I won't defend MM's inaccuracies, any more than I allow people around me to make stuff up about Mormons (my usual approach is to correct the falsehood followed by a reminder that there is plenty of actual craziness to make fun of without making stuff up). However, when it comes to getting your message across, the sad truth is that entertainment is more important than accuracy in this country (cf. every TV news channel, newspaper, magazine, etc. with perhaps a very few exceptions). So, MM knows how to play the game. You don't have to like him for it, but you should probably acknowledge that he's no worse than the average pundit. American mainstream news is seriously a joke.

[TripletDaddy]

woot, I also enjoyed Food, Inc.

I also saw a soft-doc called "24 Hour Party People." It is a documentary, but it is done with actors and real-life footage intertwined....very interesting approach and very entertaining.

The doc covers the rise and fall of Tony Wilson and Factory Records.....from the now-famous Sex Pistols concert, to his discovery of Joy Division, to New Order and Happy Mondays and the Madchester era, including the height of popularity and the Hacienda days.

If anyone is a fan of Factory music, this one is a must see. there are also very clever cameos of several prominent people depicted in the movie...including Tony Wilson, himself. Obviously, the soundtrack is fantastic.

[Teenage Dirtbag]

One of the best things about a Netflix subscription is the hundreds of documentaries available for streaming.