I have a bad feeling about this.

[Commando]

Lucasfilm would be lucky to have me!

I love almost all of the post prequel Star Wars content, with the exception of VIII and IX (and I would put TFA at the bottom of the rest, even though I enjoyed it). I love the Clone Wars, the Bad Batch, and the Mandalorian. I liked Rebels. Rogue One was great. I even thought Solo was fine.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but the sequels just aren't good movies. I don't think the prequels were great but the storyline was coherent and consistent. The novelizations of the movies, or a Wikipedia summary, make sense in the overall universe. Not the case with VIII and IX. They clearly didn't have a clear plan with the trilogy and were making it up as they went along. And it shows. Rey is boring. Kylo is too emo to be believable as a threat. Finn wasn't developed, "somehow, Palpatine returned," ect, etc ,etc.

Lucasfilm would be committing suicide if they were to continue to bound themselves by something that was pieced together ad hoc.

I really wasn't looking forward to Andor, since Rogue One was not my favorite, but they just greenlit a season 2. They must be doing something right already...

[USUC]

Well... in fairness... I have some news about the original trilogy.

The divisiveness off the sequels is extremely entertaining to me. I'm not saying your view of them are wrong, a lot of people like them (but a lot of people also liked Avatar ). But the continued persistence from sequels fans that people who don't like them "just don't get" or don't understand the original trilogy, or are "right wing/misogynistic" is hilarious. It really doesn't matter, but it's clear that Lucasfilm knows they were bad and unnecessarily divisive and that a change in direction was needed. Maybe they won't retcon the sequels but there is a reason most of the animated and live action projects aren't set in the sequel era.

You must also be aware that the majority of long time fans don't like the sequels. They can't all be too ignorant to understand.

I do know that the Star Wars forums and all the various SW subreddits are wild when it comes to the various arguments pro and con to the sequels. Some people really tale this stuff seriously and it makes them crazy. I don't really care that much. I enjoy most SW content. I don't watch the sequels and if content is made in the sequel era I will give it a try but will have no qualms ditching it if it is terrible.

[USUC]

Have you read Colin Trevorrow's 'Dual of the Fates' script? It had some things that I liked and showed promise-- they use Plagueis' ancient master instead of Palpatine as a transformative character for Kylo Ren and utilize the Knights of Ren a bit more, but ultimately JJ's take was better overall, even though I was very let down by their use of Palpatine. I don't even hate that Palpatine was in it-- just the way they did it was awful. Return of Skywalker has Ben Solo, though, and that was the much better resolution for that character, as much as a redemption was not really in the cards for him. They took some giant steps in rehabilitating Kylo Ren in the comics, though, in showing what really happened w the Jedi academy, etc.

But needing to clean things up in supplemental media is not a strong argument in favor of the movies, right?

Where can you find the Dual of the Fates script? Is it online? Does it at least have Luke, Han, and Leia in a scene together?

What we need is content feom the the Old Republic era.

[Commando]

The divisiveness off the sequels is extremely entertaining to me. I'm not saying your view of them are wrong, a lot of people like them (but a lot of people also liked Avatar ). But the continued persistence from sequels fans that people who don't like them "just don't get" or don't understand the original trilogy, or are "right wing/misogynistic" is hilarious. It really doesn't matter, but it's clear that Lucasfilm knows they were bad and unnecessarily divisive and that a change in direction was needed. Maybe they won't retcon the sequels but there is a reason most of the animated and live action projects aren't set in the sequel era.

You must also be aware that the majority of long time fans don't like the sequels. They can't all be too ignorant to understand.

I do know that the Star Wars forums and all the various SW subreddits are wild when it comes to the various arguments pro and con to the sequels. Some people really tale this stuff seriously and it makes them crazy. I don't really care that much. I enjoy most SW content. I don't watch the sequels and if content is made in the sequel era I will give it a try but will have no qualms ditching it if it is terrible.

I don't think that's true at all. I do know SOME that don't like it but most are like me-- I like it all but I am not allergic to criticizing it, either. I'm fine if someone doesn't like a thing I like, but there are extremists in the fandom that are all the way toxic-- I have better things to do than engage with those sorts.

The irony here is that all these extra series, comics, saga films, etc are pretty dedicated to 'retconning' or reconciling things in the older movies that need clarification, explanation, or just plain fixing. Or sometimes there are cool things that are ripe for expounding. Rogue One in particular fixed a major sticking point for some fans-- (why was the Death Star-the culmination of the Empire's might-- built like a fire cracker you just had to light?) So yes-- in that sense they will 'retcon' the sequels and there will definitely be series to come that will flesh out those stories the way the Clone Wars made Anakin a million times better character, and added characters to the timeline that are now indispensable like Ahsoka. The possibilities are endless and I think we will see a sequel era series soon enough-- the Rogue Squadron series that was just shelved for the time being was to take place in the sequel era, for example. I wouldn't mind a Knights of Ren series or even picking up where episode IX left off for a Finn-centric series, since I like 'real time' series rather than prequel after prequel. That's the appeal of the Mandalorian for me-- we have no idea what's going to happen in his corner of the galaxy bc it's never been explored at all.

[Commando]

But needing to clean things up in supplemental media is not a strong argument in favor of the movies, right?

Meh. All the movies have been cleaned up A LOT by supplemental media- see my last post.

[Commando]

But needing to clean things up in supplemental media is not a strong argument in favor of the movies, right?

Where can you find the Dual of the Fates script? Is it online? Does it at least have Luke, Han, and Leia in a scene together?

What we need is content feom the the Old Republic era.

I... think this is coming. The High Republic will be interesting, too, as soon as we get some solid visual media. I did enjoy this trailer, even though we won't see this game for a long time:

[Commando]

Where can you find the Dual of the Fates script? Is it online? Does it at least have Luke, Han, and Leia in a scene together?

Here:

https://archive.org/details/dotf_20200426

Spoiler: no scenes of Luke, Han, and Leia, but there is one w Luke, Yoda, and Obi Wan

[beefytee]

The sequels occured in an alternate universe. There is already groundwork laid for how it can be justified.

The characters in the sequels are poorly developed and uninteresting. The point will come when they are certainly retconned.

Wait what? All the movies are prefaced with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...." I didn't see anything in there about alternative universes.

I'm waiting for the series way in their future when they collide with earth. Maybe Grogu will still be around for that one.

[All-American]

Wait what? All the movies are prefaced with "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...." I didn't see anything in there about alternative universes.

Star Wars and Marvel will eventually merge. It is unavoidable. It is their destiny.

[beefytee]

Smoking? Nothing, but I do watch Star Wars. Have you seen the original trilogy lately? It's pretty good, but man does it have problems. It helps when you remember that it's principally a kid's movie and a very strong cinematic homage.

The sequel trilogy + the Clone Wars + Rebels + Rogue One +Solo+ the Bad Batch + the Mandalorian + the Book of Boba Fett + the SW Marvel Comics + Jedi: Fallen Order are amazing

Just to be clear, you think the latest trilogy and all the other recent shows have less "problems" than the original trilogy? Maybe I've been blinded by my childhood, but I see plenty of problems with the latest offerings. Maybe we have different idea of what "problems" are.

[Commando]

Just to be clear, you think the latest trilogy and all the other recent shows have less fewer "problems" than the original trilogy? Maybe I've been blinded by my childhood, but I see plenty of problems with the latest offerings. Maybe we have different idea of what "problems" are.

I don't know if there are fewer problems or not, because like you say-- I have no idea what kind of thing you consider to be problematic in a movie. But do you think if the sequel critics were to examine the original trilogy through the same critical lens they view the sequels things would come up roses? lol. For starters, while the sequels are criticized for not having a coherent vision or outline, it is clear that the original trilogy was written on the fly, too. For example, Leia was never meant to be Luke's sister until they wrote ROTJ or they never would have had that kiss in TESB. Building a second death star one second after the first one was destroyed was criticized plenty as a lazy plot point. I mean.. lucas hadn't even determined until the 11th hour whether Luke would redeem Vader or take his place. Lucas left Han Solo's fate up in the air after TESB until he knew he had Harrison Ford back. A sith lord and a jedi master swinging the lightsaber as though it's a two-handed Zweihander in the first one and then later wielding it like a katana blade.. for Pete's sake-- Obi Wan had to use the phrase FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW to reconcile some of the obvious they had to make on the foundation established in the original trilogy. So the complaining that there is no coherent arc for the sequels is valid, but if you can't admit the original trilogy suffered the same problem but even worse, you're not looking critically enough.

[Pelado]

I don't know if there are fewer problems or not, because like you say-- I have no idea what kind of thing you consider to be problematic in a movie. But do you think if the sequel critics were to examine the original trilogy through the same critical lens they view the sequels things would come up roses? lol. For starters, while the sequels are criticized for not having a coherent vision or outline, it is clear that the original trilogy was written on the fly, too. For example, Leia was never meant to be Luke's sister until they wrote ROTJ or they never would have had that kiss in TESB. Building a second death star one second after the first one was destroyed was criticized plenty as a lazy plot point. I mean.. lucas hadn't even determined until the 11th hour whether Luke would redeem Vader or take his place. Lucas left Han Solo's fate up in the air after TESB until he knew he had Harrison Ford back. So the complaining that there is no coherent arc for the sequels is valid, but if you can't admit the original trilogy suffered the same problem but even worse, you're not looking critically enough.

I definitely have complaints about the original trilogy. Ewoks, for one.

As to Leia being Luke's sister - that may have been known during TESB. When Luke is rushing off to save his friends from Vader, Kenobi says something like "That boy is our last hope" but then Yoda says "No, there is another" which is presumably a reference to Leia.

[USUC]

I don't know if there are fewer problems or not, because like you say-- I have no idea what kind of thing you consider to be problematic in a movie. But do you think if the sequel critics were to examine the original trilogy through the same critical lens they view the sequels things would come up roses? lol. For starters, while the sequels are criticized for not having a coherent vision or outline, it is clear that the original trilogy was written on the fly, too. For example, Leia was never meant to be Luke's sister until they wrote ROTJ or they never would have had that kiss in TESB. Building a second death star one second after the first one was destroyed was criticized plenty as a lazy plot point. I mean.. lucas hadn't even determined until the 11th hour whether Luke would redeem Vader or take his place. Lucas left Han Solo's fate up in the air after TESB until he knew he had Harrison Ford back. A sith lord and a jedi master swinging the lightsaber as though it's a two-handed Zweihander in the first one and then later wielding it like a katana blade.. for Pete's sake-- Obi Wan had to use the phrase FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW to reconcile some of the obvious they had to make on the foundation established in the original trilogy. So the complaining that there is no coherent arc for the sequels is valid, but if you can't admit the original trilogy suffered the same problem but even worse, you're not looking critically enough.

The original trilogy is the source material though, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Lucas was involved for the entire trilogy and prequels. JJ started it, Rian tore it up with no influence from JJ, and then JJ came back in to try and clean up what Rian did. The ad hoc nature is different.

It's a big reason why the movies are crap, but not the only reason. For instance, Star Wars is all about the hero's journey. What was Rey's journey? Discovering that she is good at everything she does and being frustrated that others don't see it? But this is just me, perhaps.

To change gears, I'm looking forward to Kenobi. I wonder if there will be some Bad Batch crossover.

[Commando]

I definitely have complaints about the original trilogy. Ewoks, for one.

As to Leia being Luke's sister - that may have been known during TESB. When Luke is rushing off to save his friends from Vader, Kenobi says something like "That boy is our last hope" but then Yoda says "No, there is another" which is presumably a reference to Leia.

That happened in Return of the Jedi- you know— the movie where they decided Leia was Luke’s sister. And Leia then recounts memories of her mother, which I guess George Lucas forgot about when he wrote Padme dying after giving birth on Revenge of the Sith…

[Pelado]

That happened in Return of the Jedi- you know— the movie where they decided Leia was Luke’s sister.

I beg to differ:

And Leia then recounts memories of her mother, which I guess George Lucas forgot about when he wrote Padme dying after giving birth on Revenge of the Sith…

That incongruency was introduced by the prequels, not the original trilogy.