Down with the 80's

[MarkGrace]

I think great records either have to have some moderate degree of commercial success (a lot of people have heard it and it resonates with them) or it must have some strong influence on later acts that have some commercial success.

So for an album to be great it must have some relation to commercial success? That seems like a terrible way to look at things.

[Babs]

I graduated from high school in 1995, so I should be sticking up for the 90s, but I can't since the last 3-4 years of the decade were totally indefensible.

Rock and Roll's gone downhill since Kurt Cobain died.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

So for an album to be great it must have some relation to commercial success? That seems like a terrible way to look at things.

I have an aversion to music snobbery because I think there are an assload of hipsters out there that like to listen to crap that most people find either boring or nonsensical. They listen to it because of the exclusivity of it. My Bloody Valentine is a perfect example.

I never said that commercial success=a great album. Britney Spears and Cisqo are both complete rubbish. I also never said that every great album had to have some degree of commercial success- a great album could merely have the effect of being influential for a string of albums that are commercially successful. I pointed out the connection between Doolittle and Nevermind.

The greatest bands/albums in history all have had good degrees of commercial success or have been substantially influential. The Beatles, Zeppelin, the Who, U2 and even Radiohead have all been very commercially successful. Other groups/acts like Sly and the Family Stone, the Pixies, and the Velvet Underground are also recognized as great bands/acts but they were only moderately successful or flamed out early- but they had a huge impact later on.

[TripletDaddy]

I have an aversion to music snobbery because I think there are an assload of hipsters out there that like to listen to crap that most people find either boring or nonsensical. They listen to it because of the exclusivity of it. My Bloody Valentine is a perfect example.

I never said that commercial success=a great album. Britney Spears and Cisqo are both complete rubbish. I also never said that every great album had to have some degree of commercial success- a great album could merely have the effect of being influential for a string of albums that are commercially successful. I pointed out the connection between Doolittle and Nevermind.

The greatest bands/albums in history all have had good degrees of commercial success or have been substantially influential. The Beatles, Zeppelin, the Who, U2 and even Radiohead have all been very commercially successful. Other groups/acts like Sly and the Family Stone, the Pixies, and the Velvet Underground are also recognized as great bands/acts but they were only moderately successful or flamed out early- but they had a huge impact later on.

Do a lot of people listen to My Bloody Valentine? I went to their moderately recent show in LA last year because I really loved Isn't Anything back in HS and Loveless in college. I didn't even think they were all that popular these days. Most of the people at the show were 30-somethings. I didn't see many young kids, although there were some.

[MarkGrace]

I never said that commercial success=a great album.

No one said you did. But you did say this:

I think great records either have to have some moderate degree of commercial success (a lot of people have heard it and it resonates with them) or it must have some strong influence on later acts that have some commercial success.

Which is why I replied this:

So for an album to be great it must have some relation to commercial success? That seems like a terrible way to look at things.

I didn't claim that your comment suggests that all commercial successes are great albums. But you did say that in order for an album to be great it must bear some relation to commercial success, either on its own or vicariously through another album. Like I said, I just think that's a terrible standard.

When you compare the first half of the 90s against the 2nd, the great albums definitely sold more, but on the whole I think the output in terms of quality was very comparable.

I hear people talk about My Bloody Valentine. I listen to a few tracks from that record and I just don't get it. Doolittle from the Pixies- absolutely I get. Both had decent success, but only one really had a huge amount of influence.

I think you're wrong again. The difference is "you get" Doolittle and like it, and because you're familiar with its connection to Nirvana it's easy to make that sell. But Loveless was a very impactful record, just less obvious because it didn't have a mega-star like Kurt constantly talking about it. Both Billy Corgan and Trent Reznor specifically requested the producer of that album to work on their albums (Mellon Collie, The Fragile) because they wanted to in part replicate the sound and production style. And, of course, we all know that the textured guitar elements of this album were a big influence in Radiohead. So really, even under your limited definition of great album, Loveless should still get consideration because of its subsequent impact on highly successful commercial albums.

As a disclaimer, I am not a fan, at all, of Loveless. I, like you, listened to it a few times and absolutely did not get it.

[UtahDan]

And, of course, we all know that the textured guitar elements of this album were a big influence in Radiohead.

Everyone can skip the rest of the post and just read this sentence. What Mark is really trying to say is that in order to be a great album, it has to be (1) recorded by Radiohead (2) something that influenced Radiohead (3) something that influenced one of Radiohead's influences.

Just thought I would make that easier for everyone.

[MarkGrace]

Everyone can skip the rest of the post and just read this sentence. What Mark is really trying to say is that in order to be a great album, it has to be (1) recorded by Radiohead (2) something that influenced Radiohead (3) something that influenced one of Radiohead's influences.

Just thought I would make that easier for everyone.

LOL. Hey, I'm a RH geek. And you forgot category (4): Influenced by Radiohead!

[MartyFunkhouser]

LOL. Hey, I'm a RH geek. And you forgot category (4): Influenced by Radiohead!

Replace Radiohead with John Coltrane and you have my opinion on music.

[jay santos]

No order:

1. Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians' cover of "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall"
2. The Cars, "Drive"
3. Tom Petty, "Free Fallin'"
4. John Fogerty, "Centerfield"
5. Georgia Satellites, "Keep Your Hands to Yourself"
6. Guns n' Roses, "Sweet Child O' Mine" or "Paradise City"
7. Michael Jackson, "Billie Jean"
8. John Mellencamp, "Pink Houses"
9. Bruce Springsteen, "I'm on Fire" or "Born in the USA"
10. Alan Parsons Project, "Eye in the Sky"

substitute;
Bonnie Raitt, "Have a Heart"
Randy Travis, "I'm Gonna Love You Forever"
RUN DMC, "King of Rock"

When I was in college, I sat down and showed my dad the lyrics to "Born in the USA," and Vietnam Vet that he was, he started crying. I never asked if they were tears of understanding or of feeling betrayed.

add:
all U2
all Smiths
OMD Crush
Prince Purple Rain
Psych Furs Mirror Moves
Public Enemy Yo! Bum Rush the Show and It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
other great 80's rap: Kool Moe Dee, LL Cool J, Easy E, Run DMC
Police Synchronicity
Sting's first solo album
Van Halen especially 1984
great metal: Metallica, Scorpions, Motley Crue
great gay music: Depeche Mode, Erasure, Duran Duran, Cure, Pet Shop Boys, HoJo
Foreigner 4
Boston
even Madonna

All great music

[Jeff Lebowski]

Out of respect to my younger CUF amigos, I have downloaded some Radiohead music. I have OK Computer, Kid A, and a two-disc Best Of collection. I hate to admit it, but I am struggling a bit to see what the fuss is about. Can you RH fans point me to some specific tunes that I should put in my playlist?

TIA.

[wuapinmon]

Out of respect to my younger CUF amigos, I have downloaded some Radiohead music. I have OK Computer, Kid A, and a two-disc Best Of collection. I hate to admit it, but I am struggling a bit to see what the fuss is about. Can you RH fans point me to some specific tunes that I should put in my playlist?

TIA.

Poppier stuff I love includes:

"High and Dry"
"No Surprises"

I also like:
"Paranoid Android"
"Fake Plastic Trees"
"Everything in its right place"

I'm not a "I love it all fan" but Kid A was awesome for all the dissonance. The lyrics to "Paranoid Android" are right up my alley.

[MarkGrace]

and a two-disc Best Of collection

.

Yuck.

Can you RH fans point me to some specific tunes that I should put in my playlist?

Yuck II. Just listen to the albums.

[MarkGrace]

My 5 favorite RH songs:

Paranoid Android
Climbing Up the Walls
The National Anthem
Pyramid Song
There There

I guess I could do a more extensive list, but its tough to pick my favorite songs, as I love most of them.

Pablo Honey -- about three good songs (Creep, Lurgee, Blow Out)

The Bends -- most everything is pretty fantastic; weakest for me is Sulk

OKC -- everything is stellar

Kid A -- Treefingers and In Limbo are the least noteworthy individual songs, but they are essential to the album's narrative and concept

Amnesiac -- Morning Bell/Amnesiac is garbage and the worst song to make an album since Pablo Honey; the rest is good to great

Hail to the Thief -- We Suck Young Blood and I Will are a major drag on the albums pace, but everything else is pretty fantastic (major highlights for me are 2+2=5, Where I End and You Begin, and There There)

In Rainbows -- Everything is fantastic; Faust Arp is the least interesting song, but it's basically an interlude piece between sides 1 and 2.

[TripletDaddy]

Out of respect to my younger CUF amigos, I have downloaded some Radiohead music. I have OK Computer, Kid A, and a two-disc Best Of collection. I hate to admit it, but I am struggling a bit to see what the fuss is about. Can you RH fans point me to some specific tunes that I should put in my playlist?

TIA.

JeffLebowski,

It will have to grow on you a bit. After so much hype, it will take some time to move beyond the expectations and just enjoy the music.

I would suggest starting with the following 4: The Bends, OK Computer, In Rainbows, and Hail to the Thief.

After you digest a couple of those and get a taste, then you are ready for Kid A and Amnesiac. These 2 were long rumored to be companion pieces, with Amnesiac being dubbed Kid B before its release, and represent a vastly different direction for the band. I would not try to intro myself to radiohead by listening to Amnesiac or Kid A. Kid A is amazing, but highly evolved, even for them. Save those for after you have begun to appreciate their other work.

Pablo Honey gets slagged by a lot of folks, but it is actually a really good record. It isn't their best, but it has several listener friendly tunes on it.....creep, anyone can play guitar, ripcord, etc. In my opinion, it kind of floats out there on its own. It isn't their best record, and it doesn't really fit with any of the other records. It is just kind of there. But it is enjoyable.

Just a thought.

[MarkGrace]

I'm trying to think of more songs, and my next 5 would probably be:

Idioteque
You and Whose Army?
Life in a Glasshouse
Dollars & Cents
How to Disappear Completely